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Written by Berg on Tuesday, 03 July 2012 09:41

 

This is a response piece to @hahostolze’s article on why “Patrick Vieira is no longer an Arsenal legend”. A piece which I disagree entirely and this article is to explain why. This is not an attack on the author, just my view on the matter. I’m sure we can all be civilised about all this.

What constitutes being a legend at a football club? His achievement while at the specific football club - honours/titles/trophies won should play a big percentage. His general attitude when on the pitch - whether he wears the badge with pride and represent the club in the best possible manner. Or is it something only reserved for one club man? In which case, neither Dennis Bergkamp nor Thierry Henry should ever be classed as legends.

I think we would all agree, it’s based during the player’s time at the said football club.

What can we say about the 9 seasons that Vieira spent at Arsenal Football Club? It was a trophy laden 9 seasons that in fact ended with his last ever kick for us securing what was to be our last major trophy (Emirates Cup is still a trophy, mind you). Let’s not forget the way he started for us. I wasn’t there and neither had I the opportunity to see anything apart from the goals from his first ever match for us. Premier League broadcast just wasn’t that … urm…broad, back then. But everyone agreed that we had a new midfield general in town from that moment onwards.

League titles ensued coupled with a few FA Cup triumphs in between as well. We did not have much success on the continental front but that is more of a collective team failure than one attribute solely to Vieira. Who can forget our Invincible season. A team that he was a big part of and was captain to. Suffice to say, in the achievement column, Vieira ticks all the boxes with regards to being a legend.

Would you still be able to classify one individual as a club legend should the period he feature in coincide with a period where the team is of poor quality and won nothing? Of course you can. It depends on what this players brings to the team in terms of quality and skill. It depends on whether despite the paucity of quality in and around him, the player still gives his 100% in every single game and leaves every game without these thoughts - “I could have done more there”.

This is where I strengthened my believe that Vieira is and should remain as a club legend. Over the last few seasons especially, I’m sure there has been at least a few games where you thought - “Where’s the desire lads?” or “They didn’t turn up today” or “They don’t look like they fancy it today”. Those are some of the accusations being thrown at the Arsenal teams for the last few seasons. I, myself included as one of those with such thoughts. Yet, I struggle to think of Vieira in that way (perhaps time has eroded those memories out of me).

Every match, Vieira gives his 100%. He leaves everything behind on the field. There is no regret afterwards that his didn’t put his shift in. Isn’t that what we want from every single player that dons The Arsenal kit? Put in 100% effort and whatever comes, comes. If the team is good enough, we win. If the team is not good enough, we don’t. But there should never be an occasion when less effort is given. Vieira always had the club’s best interest on the pitch. If there was a yellow card needed to be taken, he would take it. If his team mate is being bullied, he’s there to support. As the common saying goes, he always puts his body on the line for us.

Then we come to his departure from Arsenal. I have his autobiography and I’m paraphrasing because the physical book isn’t with me now. It should go something along these lines.

“I went on holidays after the season ended. As I was ready to return when I receive a call from Arsenal that they have accepted an offer from Juventus. They told me - it is your decision now. I couldn’t believe that after all I did, the club didn’t put up a stronger fight to keep me”.

These days we are pelted with constant rumours of who’s going in and out of the club. We get to hear/read insider information about the reason why a transfer is going to happen. However, we constantly remind ourselves that sometimes these stories are leaked out by the respective agents just to get an advantage in terms of contract discussion of transfer negotiations. Yet, it would be easy just to consider those season in/season out flirting with Real Madrid as what Vieira was inching to do. Can that not be agent talk as well? To get better contract at Arsenal?

I’m saying that those stories are definitely not true. Neither can I confirm that it is. Unless you’re privy to the content of the discussion they had back then, it would be hard to ascertain how much of it was the truth. The same goes for the appointment of Vieira post his playing career. Like the rest of you, it hurts to see him in a blazer with the wrong club crest. There was suggestion that we offered him a post which was not to his liking. Vieira was more interested in the developmental part of football and had every right to reject an offer which doesn’t match his wishes. It wouldn’t be right to suggest that he should take up Arsenal’s offer any way because its Arsenal. In any case, I’m just postulating on what went on based on the information that I’ve read online.

We know Vieira’s dedication to his work. We’ve all seen his commitment to the cause whenever he’s on the pitch. Do you think that this is just a face that he puts on as a player or is that his character. Because that would suggest how seriously he takes up his current role at Manchester City. He only wants to do his job and do it well. If that includes trying to buy Arsenal players over to make City a better team, is there any logical reason for him not to do so? Mind you, I’m not asking you not to be angry if that happens again though, because I too will get rather piss if that happens. But that’s a different discussion altogether.

All in all, Vieira’s dedication to his job may ultimately proved to be his downfall in terms of where he stands with Arsenal fans. There’s no right or wrong in this, just the perception that you as a fan, wants to take on. To me, Patrick Vieira will always be an Arsenal legend.

Guest Post by Berg (@aeroberg)

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Comments (27)

  • Barmacafc  - He's a Lowlife Prick
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    Vieira was meeting clubs Barca/Real etc during His last few seasons at us We were forced to but his Loyalty He has been stealing Our Players For Citeh So this Man is a lowlife Prick Not A Legend - How can anyone compare Him to Henry Adams and co.I for one don't care what he played like or what he has done at the club what he is doing now writes that off
  • hahostolze
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    Dude... even your article get's trolls. That makes me feel good. But honestly, like I said, everyone has their own opinion. And this is wonderfully written. Just wish it wasn't proving me wrong... :P
  • pedantic george  - mmmm
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    Before I read this I was undecided,but now I am not so sure how undecided I am!
  • indian gooner
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    A great player while at the club...certainly...legend?i dont feel that way about him. To me a legend behaves with great affection towards his club even when hes not there anymore. DB10 no longer plays for us and works in nederlands.None of us have any animosity towards him coz of his words, his actions after he has retired.Likewise TH14 left for barca, came back to us last seaosn, but the way he has spoken about this club is with great pride, love and affection.

    The same thing cannot be said about PV4's actions. PV4 was constantly courted by real etc. he never came out and committed himself to us. we always had headaches in the summer coz of this. If just going by his words that "after all i had done...they didnt fight to keep me.." is to be taken as a standard ...then" i swerved off the road once i heard it was 55k and not 60k as had been promised..." by our cashley too can be equated as love for our club. PV4 was a great player, but can never be equated to the likes of DB10 or TH14.
  • jenkinson  - Loyalty
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    I will always remember Vieira as an Arsenal legend. His physical presence on the pitch is unforgettable. Whatever he has done since he left the club is irrelevant.
    He was not super-loyal. Don't forget Arsene had to call Michael Carrick to tell him his deal was off because Vieira had changed his mind about joining Real. I've often wondered how good Carrick would have become if Arsene had coached him.
  • khalifha  - Double hmmm
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    Same here PG, am not sure who to believe, but Viera joining Man city was not something you would expect of an 'arsenal legend' or maybe i am allowing my dislike for the sheikhs cloud my judgement, whatever.
  • khalifha  - Double hmmm
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    Same here PG, am not sure who to believe, but Viera joining Man city was not something you would expect of an 'arsenal legend' or maybe i am allowing my dislike for the sheikhs cloud my judgement, whatever.
  • Richard Morgan
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    Viera is one of the greats o this club. His post at city does ot have any effect on what he achieved whilst playing for this club. Whether he wanted to go to real or juventus or Arsene decided it was time he moved on for cesc's development or whatever is irrelevant. He was our captain and we won trophies in his time here he and petit held the team perfectly together a link between defence and attack and did the dirty stuff as well as contributing goals. Viera the legend his name will go down in our history as one of the greats of the club.
  • Minyahil  - what he has done was being wiped up with his recen
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    What is a legend to you guys? only what you did makes you a legend but it should be in the absence of any activities that the legend is participating and strengthening your enemy.
    For me this guy is no more a legend for Arsenal. He was once and indeed he cleared it all!!! Call him now ENEMY!!!
    Truly Gunner!!!
  • Adedokun Adetunji  - Patrice Viera
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    Hmmm! ok, yes a Lengend, but he should have look for another team to pick players from not always from Arsenal. Hope this year will be different. But he is still a greate player that Arsenal will always leave to remember.
  • anto  - vieira
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    never forgot the vieira tackles.always be a legend to me.one of the all time greats for arsenal.he should be remembered for what he done on the pitch.one of my all time favs is paddy v.if he went on to manage citeh and won 5 titles that still wont change my opinion.he should be thought of for what he done at arsenal.not anywhere else
  • Podge
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    He captained Arsenal through the Invincible season he was a key player in 2 doubles and 2 more fa cups. You think of Vieira you think of Arsenal, you think of Arsenal and Vieira is one of the first players you think of. Question his loyalty but he spent 9 seasons at Arsenal, he left when he was 29 and had faded as a player, he gave Arsenal the best years of his career. He left Arsenal a long time ago and City gave him what he wanted in the last few years one last year of competitive football and a well paid backroom role that he enjoys, he shouldn't be blamed for taking their offer.

    He might not be Mr.Arsenal but he is an Arsenal legend.
  • Utkarsh
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    What if Henry after retirement decides to coach and we still have Arsene doing his job here at Arsenal.. Will you start Saying him as a Disgrace at Arsenal, because he joined some other place to do his job?

    Its always about commitment and dedication to your work...being honest is what which is more important.

    YES, I love Arsenal and hearing good and positives about the club that I love most makes me happy... but this doesnot mean that i should start writing something which will make our LEGENDS (YES, HE is one and will always be) look like some cheap mercenary...
  • Freddie
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    A great response to yesterday's article.

    Vieira was a fantastic player for Arsenal, from his debut up until his final appearance he rarely gave less than 100%.

    Was he guilty of flirting with other clubs? I guess so, but then again show me a top class footballer that doesn't do this. It could be to leverage a better deal out of their current club, or it could be because they want to move on. Certainly Henry did his share of flirting with other clubs, but I don't see any articles stating he is no longer a legend.

    It seems a lot of the resentment towards PV is that he is now employed by Man City, who have signed some of our players in recent years. I assume some fans think PV is acting as a cheerleader for Man City and tempting these players away. Personally I think it has more to do with the unbelievable wages that Man City can offer. Ultimately they haven't taken one of our better players, I don't miss Adebayor, Toure, Clichy or Nasri.

    I can only speak for myself, but I would take one Patrick Vieira over a dozen Cescs. If you want to question loyalty to the Arsenal I'd focus on him and the lesbian-looking Na$ri...
  • @LarryMbaco
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    Agree 100% with this article. Great work.
  • Dan  - He comes from Senegal...
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    I remember watching his debut from the North Bank against Sheffield Wednesday, his marauding runs from midfield that game was something we hadn't seen at Arsenal for a long time. We knew from that moment he was a special player, someone completely different. Okay, since leaving Arsenal he hasn't exactly been a massive supporter of the club but there can be no doubt that Viera IS an Arsenal legend, without doubt the greatest all-round midfielder we've had (and that includes Brady and Fabregas). The guy was an incredible Arsenal player, just look at what we won with him as captain. When we sold him he was on the way down + he basically wanted to leave the season before anyway so he can have no complaints about the way he was sold (he just didn't want to go to Juventus). I think he's as much of a legend as Ian Wright. Great whilst playing for the club, not so great afterwards. But don't forget the good times, and the trophies he helped deliver.
  • ChrisG
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    I agree with a lot of the comments and the article in general. I don't remember Vieira giving any criticism to Arsenal that wasn't deserved. Granted he may not be full of praise for us, but compare our squad now with the squad we had when Vieira was in his prime. They are two completely different teams with completely different styles.

    The Vieira era was all about powerful, physical players like himself, Petit, Gilberto, which was balanced out with more creative players on the wings like Overmars, Pires, Ljungberg. Our current game is based on possession so we have ball players where we used to have ball winners in midfield. This isn't a criticism, just an observation.

    Most of the comments I have seen from vieira that could be construed as critical all relate to how easily our current midfield is bullied off the ball, something that didn't happen very often during PV's reign in midfield. As other commenters have mentioned Ian Wright has been far more critical of Arsenal than PV, but I'm guessing the fact he isn't currently employed by Man City has saved his 'legend' status.

    PV was the greatest central midfielder I have ever seen in an Arsenal shirt, and we have missed him in our midfield ever since he left for Juve. He'll always be a legend to me unless he does something really dumb like go to sp*rs...
  • Ed
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    Let's face it, Arsenal has screwed up by not finding a role for him.
  • Sunn  - Past and current conduct
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    There is zero doubt of PV's massive contributions to Arsenal during his playing time and captaincy. Nobody can take credit away from him for that and nothing he does thereafter can cgage his legendary exploits then.
    But does this make him a legend regardless of his subsequent behavior and exploits? Not to me.
    I accept that he is well entitled to take up a job which may result in conflicting interests with Arsenal, especially since Arsenal is not, for whatever reason, in a position to offer him a job. But if he does so and given the massive conflict with Arsenal's interests, he loses the right to be a true Arsenal legend.
    Henry? Gone on record that he can never join another club in EPL as he cannot imagine playing against his beloved Arsenal. Remember his conspicuous discomfort when Arsenal faced Barcelona in the Champion's League? See the body language when he returned last season, especially after crucial goals against Leeds and Sunderland. and what he did when a junior ex colleague collapsed at Bolton. THAT'S AN ARSENAL LEGEND.
  • aeroberg
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    Thanks for reading and the comments. Good or bad.
    Like hahostolze said, it's good to be able to discuss this in a civilised manner.
  • Deano
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    I watched every home game while viera was with us . And he did give 110% but you was allways hearing that he was talking to other clubs . A great player but to go to man ****y and give statements that they could be a much better team than us . To me is unforgivable and steeling our players To go and and play for those muppets who paid for the prem trophy they diddnt work and build a team they just got a cheque book out no heart no style no class so viera is right at home .
  • dkgooner
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    :roll:
  • goonerkam  - pv4
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    Good piece AEROBERG,
    it is what it is. Lets not rewrite history. He was superb for us.
    I choose to ignore what he and other explayers say or write about the ARSENAL. Just remember the very good times and enjoy the memories. That's all one can do. UP. THE GUNS!!!!!!
  • Tony  - Was great...but no legend
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    For me he was the greatest of the greats in midfield, and yes he gave the best of his best years to Arsenal..but that works both ways -it could be said Arsenal/Arsene made him the reknowned player he turned out to be..and he was been paid to do a job(not like he was doing it for free). So my verdict would be; was a great arsenal player? Sure a hundred grand, a legend? Nope, to me being a legend has to do with as much of our humanity/personality as well as our achievment. Would we still think Henry a lengend should he decide to work for the spuds -just a job, right...? I think not.
    Great article though.
  • KING OF KINGS  - SHAME ON YOU DOUBTERS
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    Guys dont forget vierra is french. He does not owe us any loyality. What if he went on to coach CANNES? The guy came to us and played with passion for almost a decade!! AFC knew how commited he is as a person but didnt make any effort to get him from INTER, bearing in mind his mere presence will have motivated the likes of fabregas, Diaby, NASRI ETC! We bottled it. If his presence in Man City helps them win then it tells us we have not only lost VIERRA THE PLAYER BUT ALSO THE FOOTBALLING BRAINS!!! WHAT do we expect? him to be out of a Job? or go and work in the Senegalese League? Hes one of the best so nothing stops him from testing himself in the very best league simple
    We should be gratefull SPURS went for AVB AND NOT VIERRA! the day one of our closest rivals make him manager we will know what we exactly let ourselves into!!!!
  • Don Oloo
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    I even wonder why people shd question Vieira's place among Arsenal's finest ever!! This was the Captain of the invisible season guys- THE CAPTAIN!! He put in fantastic tackles, fought for the badge with honor. The only Arsenal player todate that i remember seeing with all plastered legs entering the pitch to take on Manchester United. Not very many players would go heavily bandaged to play Man U, at the risk of aggravating injury!
    Dude put ROY KEANE in his place, we need to start thinking with our heads, not hearts!
  • aeroberg  - Things in perspective
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    Looking back at this piece after RvP's statement really does put things into perspective. Don't think Vieira has ever bad mouthed us even after leaving. Speaks volume compared to one who's still our club captain

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