when was the last time we played well AND won???? I cannot recall!
My Vision
Written by Mean Lean on Thursday, 13 October 2011 12:36
It is time to pop open the champagne, stick on our party hats and dance the night away as the post International matches disco can begin.
A thought has just popped into my head whilst writing that. I almost expect others to have that same very feeling as I do about International football but that is probably the wrong assumption to make.
I guess there are many Gooners or top club supporters who are just as passionate about their country playing as they are their club side. Then I think of the relationship between supporter and team.
Yesterday I spoke about supporting the Arsenal as a type of cult, it is beyond a hobby or pastime, it turns into a big part of life. But for me, the same cannot be said for International football. I am English, born and raised but my feelings towards the England national team is virtually zilch. Much of this is due to the players who wear the shirt.
I think it is almost beyond me to cheer on people like Ashley Cole, John Terry and Wayne Rooney. There is not much I like about those people so supporting them even for 90 minutes is very difficult. When it comes to Arsenal players it is a totally different story.
Even if an Arsenal player is not good enough, I still feel a sense of loyalty to said player because he wears the red and white of Arsenal. My Arsenal.
When supporters of other clubs or indeed our own slag off our own, I find myself getting defensive because he is one of our players part of my cult.
So then what happens when an Arsenal supporter has the same mentality that I have when it comes to England. What happens when the love isn't there any longer and the only enjoyment from associating yourself to Arsenal is finding fault in every situation or totally dismissing any positives. Not just this season but even when we were going through good periods over the last few seasons?
Rooney had a very good first half in his last England match but I can forget about that and call him an absolute plumb for kicking out at the Serbia and Montenegro player. Why? Because I don't really want to find anything nice to say about Wayne Rooney.
I am wondering if this is the case for Arsenal fans who have only been able to point out negatives, for people who distance themselves from blogs when we have won and played well. Has your love for Arsenal deserted you? As my love for England has deserted me? It is surely the only way to explain the coldness and negativity of some.
Sorry just thinking out loud and once again I have gone way off track. I wanted to get back on the domestic trail but my verbal typing diarrhoea has taken over.
I have been interested in what Andrey Arshavin has had to say about what the fans should expect from him.
“They should expect more from me, of course,” he told Arsenal Player. “They should expect some more tricks, goals and unbelievable passes.
“To be honest I am still expecting more from me as well. But believe me, I do everything I can do.
“I just have to give everything I can at the moment, just on the pitch. I want to score more goals and bring my team to the title.”
Arshavin often has the appearance of a man who doesn't care very much but since he has come to Arsenal, he has always come across as a very self critical man. Arsene has said similar things previously about the Russian.
I'm not sure about expecting the tricks, I'd happily settle for 'unbelievable passes' as we are missing that link right now. I am certainly no expert but I wonder if Arshavin has the engine and fitness to play as a wide striker, especially now at 30 years of age.
I like Arshavin when he is good but given that we have rebuilt the squad, I am quite surprised that he wasn't one of those that we were going to let go and replace. At 30 years old in the position he plays in, I find it difficult to imagine that we will see his best form on a consistent basis from now until he leaves the club. That said he can be a very important squad member if he can find his best form and make the difference when he either comes on or when he is given the starts that he needs.
Arsene Wenger was speaking about the added experience being a positive for the squad when it comes to the end of the season. Our experience issue over the years is somewhat of a catch 22 situation I feel. If we were able to add the likes of Arteta, Mertesacker, Benayoun etc to the likes of Cesc, Nasri etc then I imagine that our 6 year trophy drought wouldn't be mentioned today and the reason why we have failed is because we haven't had that experience when it mattered but at the same time it is almost impossible for Arsene Wenger to buy experienced players at the level of quality that is required to play our game.
The reason why we have been able to fight at the top end of the table for every season since Arsene arrived is because he has managed to find great players before they were great. You can afford them, you can pay their wages because they are only potential. Arsenal will not or perhaps cannot find players of 28-29 years of age at the same quality of Robin van Persie. We bought Holland's best striker for £2.75m. We cannot buy a Cesc Fabregas of 27 in the peak of his career we paid £500k. We cannot compete for the best experienced players because a) the players transfer fee and wages will be way above our pay structure and b) there is simply no resale value which is important for any self sustaining football club.
That said, I think Wenger may have under valued the need for older players amongst our talented youngsters on a few occasions and this may have been the reason why we have fallen short at vital times. That might be simplifying things somewhat. Experience means very little if the player has the wrong type of character or even talent.
You can be a great shouty, pointy leader of men but if you cannot control a ball or make a five yard pass accurately then you will be little use unless you are content to sit on the bench to make up the numbers whilst using your talent on the training pitch and dressing room.
Lets hope the new experience we have in the squad along with raw talent like Alex Chamberlain and Ryo Miyaichi can come together smoothly like milk in coffee, which is exactly what I am about to drink.
So before it goes cold I bid you farewell,
'til Tomorrow.
Fancy writing your own articles for fellow Gooners to read? Click Your Vision section.
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13-Oct-2011 13:39 | | BG
"I am wondering if this is the case for Arsenal fans who have only been able to point out negatives, for people who distance themselves from blogs when we have won and played well. Has your love for Arsenal deserted you?"
when was the last time we played well AND won???? I cannot recall!
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13-Oct-2011 14:46 | | Passenal
ML, I think Arsene has always added experience where he could find it in our price range during the last 6 years - Gallas, Eduardo, Sylvestre, Squillachi, Campbell (Sol), Sagna, Chamakh to name a few. They didn't all work out for a variety of reasons, so contrary to popular opinion the focus has not just been on youth. The reason we could buy 5 experienced players this summer is due to the money we got from the two rats that jumped ship. The norm is 1 or 2 a season. Let's hope that once they gel the ir experience will make the difference.
I agree with you with the England/Arsenal analogy - the 'foreigness' of Arsenal played up by the media has led to some people distancing themselves from the team and claims about them lacking those 'English' qualities of 'grit' and 'heart'! I've noted the correlation between the extreme xenophobia of the most vocal anti-Arsenal posters and their hatred and abuse of the foreign manager and players.
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13-Oct-2011 14:50 | | Joel - Change in perspective!
Over the last couple of Seasons i've often felt frustrated in the knowledge that Arsenal were only a couple of players away from success.A decent Centre Back and a commanding Central Midfielder to galvinise the team around him.But as we now know the Manager never shared this undeniable need and the rest was history!
Now,however,things are very different.The fulcrum around whom the team was built has returned to his hometown club.Two other first teamers have also departed and the credentials of their relacements are yet to be proven.
Unfortunately,it is my firm belief that Arsenal will not be able to fully recover from this current malaise until the current Management Team are all replaced.The current 4-3-3 formation will always remain a disaster waiting to happen when based around inept zonal marking and ill defined team roles.George Graham was a great manager in his day.But "his day" came to an end as the rest of the Premier League got wise to his stayed team tactics.Not only have Arsene Wenger's tactics been well and truly "found out" but without anything like the right personel to implement his deluded "game plans" the team has struggled to beat the most mediocre of opposition.Yes! It's difficult to see who there is out there to replace him.Although any replacement would surely be capable of more than 6 wins in 20 matches.But the Board are all too busy trying to protect themselves from the "Russian Invader" so Monsieur Wenger's vagaries continue to be largely ignored at Board management level!!!.Obviously,there is a chance that this Arsenal team could plum to the same depths as the Spurs side under the tutorledge of Ramos and force a decision.But there remains a modicum of class which will surely maintain a mid-table position although I have to say that this being the case-I'd rather not pay for the priviledge of watching this-my choice!!
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14-Oct-2011 08:06 | | JOEL - Watch when we're winning!
I've been watching Arsenal since 1970 and i can assure you that I've seen plenty of losses during that time!There is a ridiculous defensiveness amongst a section of supporters who believe that they are better than the rest because they don't criticise.That's fine but at the moment there is plenty to find fault with,and therefore speak out!
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14-Oct-2011 09:33 | | pika
I am wondering if this is the case for Arsenal fans who have only been able to point out negatives, for people who distance themselves from blogs when we have won and played well. Has your love for Arsenal deserted you? As my love for England has deserted me? It is surely the only way to explain the coldness and negativity of some.
SPOT ON MATE !
too many arseholes with their negativity polluting arsenal. they arent interested in critisising the manager or the players. they will take the exact opposite position as if they are the prosecutors or wenger, which means that the real arsenal supporters have to take the role of defence attorney. what angers me the most is that when you prove them wrong they have the cheek to turn around and call you a blind follower, when in fact its them who are blind and its them who have had their heads screwed by biassed media and rivals bragging.
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14-Oct-2011 09:39 | | pika
i suggest to all these narrow-minded cretins who only know how to complain and cry and moan to have a read of serious football finance sites like rumble;s and if they still feel that wenger needs to get sacked then i guess they are idiots.
as for those who think they can question professionals of wenger;s expertise, stature, experience and dedication...think again...what wenger has done for arsenal none of you has ever come close. if he feels he can lead the youngsters to glories in 2 ,3 , 4, 7 or even 10 years time then you shut the hell up and support. not throw your dummies out the pram.
HANDS OFF WENGER !
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15-Oct-2011 10:04 | | Spectrum
JOEL - Yep, the A.K.B.'s with their self righteous, holier than thou attitudes make you sick. We criticise and complain because Wenger and the board supply us with plenty of ammunition to do so. To us, it's realism, to them it's "negativity", or worse - disloyalty.
By the way, Mean Lean - any comment on why Wenger intends to ship Chamakh out in January ? Another example of his expert judgement and eye for talent ? But when you rummage around in the bargain basement, what can you expect ?
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15-Oct-2011 10:07 | | Spectrum
pika - Yes, hands off Wenger. He's all yours to love and cherish. A match made in heaven.
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15-Oct-2011 10:41 | | pika
yes rectum , respect to arsene wenger, always.
i aint no spud troll to advocate the sacking of the manager who built our new home.
maybe if you had ever been to the ground youd know the feeling
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15-Oct-2011 10:43 | | pika
there is a reason why he looks for players in the bargain basement, but dont let a 450million stadium stand in the way of your bashing...

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15-Oct-2011 11:25 | | pika
hahah it is truly unbelievable that uneducated people like you think they can criticise and complain to arsene wenger

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15-Oct-2011 11:29 | | pika
agreed. a section of the english arsenal fans can not identify with what the team has evolved into since the stadium move.
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15-Oct-2011 20:21 | | Anonymous
How do you know that he is uneducated...and what has being educated got to do with knowing about football?Pika, you really need to learn to connect the dots properly my friend...yes..you suck that bad for an 'educated person' - which you apparently want us to believe.
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15-Oct-2011 23:05 | | Anonymous
I forgot Harry Spectrum Rednap how much did Chamakh cost us? At least you got the Bargin Basement bit right because he was free I'm being told.
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15-Oct-2011 23:18 | | Anonymous
Spuds don't get to to sit comfortably at the Emirates not in our magnificient stadium with the reminders of all the titles, recent doubles, and unbeaten seasons and close to 15 years of CL football.
Its only my spectrum but as you say it probably effects the rectum unduly seeing all that. Eh Harry the spectrum spud?
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16-Oct-2011 09:23 | | pika
well mate i never claimed that im knoweldgable educated or experienced enough to trash the work of pros like wenger...
YOU DO THAT on your own..
someone who is educated does not react like a vile peasant asking for managers/icons to step down.
someone who is educated does not complain to 22 year olds who cost 30k per week about titles won by 32yearolds on 180k per week
someone who is educated can see that the difference between what arsene inherrited and the arsenal now is the difference youd find in a club in a span of a century and not a mere 15 years
and finally..someone who is educated does not deman titles of a team that has just built its stadium and is in its biggest transition in its history.
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16-Oct-2011 11:10 | | richie - Agreed Joel
There is much to criticise, but there are things to be positive about. The so called real fans arguement carry's weight though, I began watching my club in the 60's and stood on the north bank thoughout the 70's although I find much to criticise. I can't join in with our "So Called Fans" who seem to love it when we lose, hate our foreign players and the most successful manager our club has ever seen.
Lets just for arguements sake say that Arsene Wenger goes for his own reasons. As supporters of the club our discussion should be about the direction our club now goes in, although with the current board and their lake of financial input I'd argue strongly that our current player developement model is probably our only choice.
The board for the first time in ages sanctioned buys only when we'd sold players to cover those buys. The boards main concern has not been the price of players bought (so they say) "I'm not convinced" but the spiraling wage bill they have to fund. Wenger isn't and wasn't involved in those buys or sales all that is handled buy Kroenke's American hot shot.
The one thing I do agree with though is its difficult for Arsenal to play as Arsene Wenger wants when the board won't fund the players AW needs to play that system.
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16-Oct-2011 11:54 | | richie - Back in the day
When I realised you were a 5th colomnist Spud and I started calling you out for being a Spud in disguise, I was alone. I'm amazed that so many now see you for what you are. You've been rumbled Spectrum
and your comments like "Wenger he's all yours" show up your lack of sophistication in trying to keep up your Charade.
All Gooners know Arsene Wenger is "Our" manager.
Only if you weren't a Gooner would you say he's "Your" manager.
Move on Spectrum Spud.
YAASID
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16-Oct-2011 12:25 | | richie - Love for Arsenal deserted you? Great read ML
Hi ML and the rest couldn't drag myself to the blog since the unmentionable, only now have I found the strength to return and what a great read I find. Fantastic article which sums up my feelings about club vs country exactly. Our national team doesn't do it for me anymore. Is that because I can't identify with the players or is it I'm no longer patriotic? Thats a hard one to analyse. I know I'm not xeniphobic because I don't yearn for an English spine for my team as many do, and I've seen with my own eye's that a foreigner "Vieira" was as pationate for the club and as much Mr Arsenal as (home grown) Tony Adams. I yearn only for us to return to a winning formula. I still want us to play great football though.
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17-Oct-2011 03:56 | | Spectrum
Anonymous - Yes, we have a magnificent stadium. But don't you see the irony here ? Have you not noticed how many EMPTY SEATS there are at the stadium ? Can you explain why that is ? Or do you think that they were previously occupied by Spuds infiltrators, only there to boo the team ?
No. I'll tell you why. It's because they see we now have an average team. A team that is being mismanaged, and that is not getting the maximum extracted from them. Our best players have not been adequately replaced with quality ones, which is what you get when you buy on the cheap. The more discerning supporters can see they are being shortchanged by the club in return for their 6.5 % season ticket rise. They have been misled by Wenger and the board in regard to their ambition ( or more correctly, the LACK of it ).
They see the board are more concerned with profits than success, and are therefore being taken for granted by them. So they stay away in protest. But sure enough, the unthinking A.K.B. sheep don't like to consider this, as anyone who dares question the status quo obviously must be a traitor to the cause. Free thinking is not permitted at Arsenal - sorry - ARSENE F.C.
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17-Oct-2011 04:43 | | Spectrum
Anonymous - That's my point. You can't get any cheaper than free, can you ? And to think Wenger waited a year so he could get him for nothing, only for him to turn out to be just that - a nothing !
Seems for every successful signing made, Wenger has two duds. Another sign of his decline.
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17-Oct-2011 04:57 | | Spectrum
richie - "ALL gooners know Wenger is our manager " ? You make it sound like we all approve of that. I can assure you that if you took your blindfold off, you'd see that many of us Gooners certainly don't share that view. I suppose you'll say that all the people on Le Grove are Spuds supporters, too ? Because by your twisted logic, if any Gooner doesn't support the manager, he can't be an Arsenal fan. What utter crap.
It's "Gooners" like you, who are the false supporters. You're the kind that keeps our club stuck in a morass of complacency. Accept everything. Question nothing. As long as we have mindless robots like you, pika, and company, the club will think everything is going just fine, and therefore they'll have no incentive to change anything.
Get off your high horse, and stop condemning others who have a differing point of view to yours.
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17-Oct-2011 05:12 | | Spectrum
Wenger for England manager ? Ha-ha that's so crazy, it's laughable. Can you imagine a tactically clueless Wenger matching wits with international calibre managers ? Wenger would be out of his depth. He'd be found out pretty quickly. A guy who doesn't concern himself with defence, won't last long at that level. Heck, he can't even solve OUR problems !
Having said that, if it means we'll be rid of him, I'm all for it. But God help England, were it to happen.
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17-Oct-2011 05:19 | | Spectrum
pika - "Evolved into", or regressed back to ? If it's "evolved", that suggests PROGRESSION. I'd like to hear EXACTLY how ( ITEM BY ITEM ) you think the TEAM has "progressed" since the stadium move ? We must have been watching two different teams.
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17-Oct-2011 05:22 | | Spectrum
Sobs the gooner - So do I, mate. So do I. Which is all the more sadder, seeing how we are now.
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17-Oct-2011 09:44 | | richie - Real supporters don't go coz we ain't winning?
From day one The Emirates has always had way too many corporate "Fans" they were never Arsenal fans! They got their season tickets for free and yes I actually know one who got his ticket from his fathers business and he doesn't go anymore..................Guess what guess why he's Spud.
Way too many real Gooners can't afford our ticket prices and naturally the corporate boys are fickle, real Arsenal supporters who hold a season ticket would turn up week in week out win lose or draw. Only an idiot with a ticket wouldn't use it.
Please move on Spectrum Spud you've been rumbled.
YAASID
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17-Oct-2011 09:56 | | pika
well i dont really care what youre watching mate ..if you call a club reaching the 3rd richest position in world football as going backwrads then maybe you need your head examined.

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17-Oct-2011 10:35 | | Spectrum
richie - There must be thousands of empty seats lately. And they were all corporate fans ? Hardly. You'll have to come up with a better excuse than that. And why do you think the empty spaces have been more numerous THIS season than previous ones ? If anyone has been "rumbled" as you put it, it's Wenger and the board. They've been caught out promising things they have no intention of seriously delivering. And suckers like you keep believing the lie every year.
The wise ones are waking up to this, and refusing to be hoodwinked any longer. In short, they don't see the team is the genuine article anymore. If you're honest with yourself, you have to concede that this team as it is, has become AVERAGE. And our league position reflects that fact. Being in denial won't change it. And the man responsible for it is the SAME ONE who has been with us for the last 15 years ! But that's o.k. Let's have more of the same, please.
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