Written by Mean Lean on Sunday, 28 August 2011 08:02

One point from two league fixtures, a difficult midweek game played and a depleted midfield, not only depleted but losing our only available defensive midfielders is never the best preparation for a Manchester United side at Old Trafford who have already flown out of the traps at top speed.

A daunting prospect for Arsenal fans around the world. I often fancy us to beat anyone and everyone but even I had major doubts about us coming away from Old Trafford without our tails tucked firmly between our legs.

Well that was until I witnessed our fighting performance in Italy against a good Udinese side. There was a wonderful fighting spirit that was on display on Wednesday night and to be honest, it has been there since the first game of the season. Playing at Manchester United is a different story to playing against Udinese but I have a feeling that the players will really dig in and pull out a big performance. Without the steel of Alex Song or the craft of Jack Wilshere, it may prove a bridge slightly too far but I am certainly not going to write us off even as depleted as we are.

The most interesting selection for Arsene Wenger will be who to play as the defensive shield in the Arsenal midfield. Alex Song and Emmanuel Frimpong are both suspended whilst Abou Diaby is sitting out injured. With Denilson out on loan, we are looking incredibly short in that area for today's game.

According to the very reliable Jamie Sanderson from Young Guns blog, young French midfielder Francis Coquelin will start the game as the defensive midfielder. Which is exciting yet daunting. Coquelin impressed whilst on loan at FC Lorient, although the versatile midfielder often feature on the right side of midfield or defence.

I thought we might see Johan Djourou return to the position that he started at as a youngster. If Coquelin starts the game then he is likely to be joined by Tomas Rosicky who was so impressive as a second half substitute in midweek and Aaron Ramsey. Whilst being a very technical midfield, it does lack height and physical strength, so it will be interesting to see how they do against the battling qualities of Anderson, Fletcher and company.

I am very disappointed that we will not have the offensive unpredictability of Gervinho out wide. Manchester United tend to flood the central areas and allow us space out wide because we usually have creative passers in wide areas. Gervinho would have given the Manchester United side something to think about as he commits players and draws other players to him.

It is likely that Andrey Arshavin will be the man to replace Gervinho out wide. Arshavin scored a rocket strike at Old Trafford a couple of years ago and we could do with something like that again. I cannot remember the last time Arshavin influenced a game from start to finish. Although you could argue that it is not his game to dominate a whole game. His game still remains very inconsistent right now.

I hope Arsene doesn't hold back the likes of Ryo Miyaichi if the likes of Arshavin are not contributing positively to the game.

There was talk of Bacary Sagna missing the match through illness, let's hope that is not the case. Traore would give us a better balance down the left as well as an extra offensive threat, but we badly need Sagna's defensive quality at a place like old Trafford where their biggest threat is often from wide areas.

Expect plenty of attention to be paid to Carl Jenkinson from the likes of Ashley Young, Nani and company.

The odds are stacked against us to get a result today and I hope that goes in our favour. Today is unlikely to be about individuals and more about the team. Defensively we are going to have to be very solid and hope that we can be clinical when a chance presents itself.

I am sure that I am not alone in saying that I would take a draw now. Some more of the fighting spirit from Wednesday and that or maybe more could be possible.

Mean Lean's Predicted Line Up

• Add New
• RSS

Comments (100)

• 28-Aug-2011 09:53 | | D Lancaster
  

  Really worried about today our midfield does not look that good .Just hope this lad Coquelln is a good player.Just hope he starts spending some of that money from Cesc and Nasri !

• 28-Aug-2011 09:57 | | IBRAHIM  - SQUAD SHEET 4 MAN U.
  

  JEKINSON,VMLN,KOSCIENY & SAGNA / MIYAICHI,ROSCISKY,RAMSEY,DJOUROU & WALCOTT‏ ‏‎/‎‏ ‏V.PERSIE

• 28-Aug-2011 10:01 | | insan  - arsenal vs mu
  

  Nothing wrong with arsenal team line up. I m confident they will deliver tonight.

• 28-Aug-2011 10:12 | | ivo  - I think it will be Djourou Ramsey Rosicky in midfi
  

  I think it will be Djourou Ramsey Rosicky in midfield

• 28-Aug-2011 10:41 | | just  - man u vs ars
  

  Gunners will make it

• 28-Aug-2011 11:03 | | john
  

  4-0 to the Arsenal

• 28-Aug-2011 11:12 | | Daniel
  

  Dont forget the match officials. The ref may give a penalty to the red faced cunt for an innocuous tackle near the box. You never know.

• 28-Aug-2011 12:06 | | richie  - Away @manu'er lets stick together eh?
  

  I ask you is that the post of a Gooner?

• 28-Aug-2011 12:49 | | Spectrum
  

  You have Sagna playing as a left back ? Why haven't we bought a SPECIALIST left back, instead of being forced to play a man out of position ? We have 100 million to spend, yet we have to improvise like this ? This is why we should have bought Enrique, only 8 mill, ( relatively cheap even by Wenger's standard. )
  But we're too obsessed with attackers, to pay proper attention to this glaring deficiency, aren't we ? Disgraceful.
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 12:54 | | Spectrum
  

  He has. Park -Chu- Young is our "super, super quality'" signing. Only 2.6 million. Yes, he's the one we've all been waiting for, alright !
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 13:02 | | ssentongo ibrahim  - lineup and the ref but not refs
  

  line up szczeny,jenkson,koscielny,vermalen,traore,coquellin,rosicky,ramsey,wal coat,miyaichi,van p.onref howard web is afun aold trafford.let me sure will be adraw.1:1

• 28-Aug-2011 13:08 | | ssentongo ibrahim
  

  thants amust for howard web

• 28-Aug-2011 13:11 | | Man United Killa
  

  Spectrum, hopefully he will sign those three players me mentioned-though I doubt he will.Lets see what happens before the window shuts on wednesday

• 28-Aug-2011 16:01 | | dkgooner  - Thin squad
  

  OK Arsene. Sign Cahill. Sign 1 or 2 creative midfielders. And an experienced left back. And then ...
  Let us pray.

• 28-Aug-2011 16:08 | | Spectrum
  

  Man Utd. Killa - Why have we left it so late in the window though ? Just so we can get players at knock down prices, that's why. It's pathetic. And we were meant to be showing AMBITION, weren't we ? So much for that idea.
  We made an insulting bid of 6 million for Cahill. WTF ? Now we've gone back and made a more realistic bid of 12 mill plus add ons. Why play these penny pinching games ? We HAVE the money, SPEND IT ! Even if it means paying more than we would like. 17 mill is overpriced, but so what ? We have a chance to get real QUALITY in return for that outlay. QUALITY - the thing Wenger always likes to bang on about, but we never get to see. Four days to go, and we are still dithering. On your bike Wenger.
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 16:28 | | Man United Killa
  

  Spectrum ..I am at Old Trafford now..Witnessing our 5-1 loss....It's criminal!

• 28-Aug-2011 16:35 | | john  - its hilarious
  

  im not angry. all you can do is laugh at this display.

• 28-Aug-2011 16:37 | | john
  

  sure is , i thought i would try a bit of the over optimism on here. was i a bit over the top then.

• 28-Aug-2011 16:43 | | Man United Killa  - Truly hilarious
  

  I know John..So much for Arsene's plan! Great squad...with a lot of quality!

• 28-Aug-2011 16:45 | | Man United Killa
  

  See who we bring on when we need to be redeeming our dignity...RVP and Walcott off for Chamakh and Lansbury..Wow what a wonderful team Wenger has!

• 28-Aug-2011 16:46 | | Man United Killa
  

  DKG..the squad is not just thin..its garbage.

• 28-Aug-2011 16:56 | | Man United Killa
  

  8-2? Fantastic Performance by Wenger's world class players!

• 28-Aug-2011 16:59 | | Goodson
  

  Who can join Arsenal now?

• 28-Aug-2011 16:59 | | john  - Totally humilating
  

  and we know Arsenes excuses MUK, we had suspensions and injuries.

• 28-Aug-2011 17:05 | | Man United Killa
  

  haha...and he will add.."we missed 5 or 6 players..who you know are quality..and we show a lot of mental zstrengtz"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:10 | | john
  

  And the AKBs will follow him blindly as usual. isnt that right Richie and Feeno

• 28-Aug-2011 17:12 | | Spectrum
  

  Man Utd Killa - A complete humiliation. ( I think you should change your name to Man Utd Victim ). David Pleat, the commentator at the match, said our defending was shambolic and disorganised. He didn't think Koscielny was up to Premier league standard, either. Why do we ALWAYS play with such a high defensive line ? United took full advantage.
  And why didn't we have anyone on the goal line covering the post ? It was obvious there was a huge gap there to aim at, and they duly exploited it. Set pieces again. Same old problems. Criminal neglect that defending hasn't been improved. No tactical changes at half time.
  Ten goals conceded in three league games. Eight points behind the leaders. And the United fans were singing "Six years and you've won f--k all ! " With this display, it's easy to see why.
  I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it - " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:18 | | pygopiranah
  

  This is what happens when you sell your best players, have no replacements lined up, quibble about a million or 2 when you have at least £90-100m in your transfer kitty and stick to the diatribe of - "we are looking to sign players but only those who will improve our squad and are better than we already have".
  
  Well what about, Mata, Jones, Roger Johnson, Scott Dann, Jagielka, Suarez, Sneider, Enrique, Aguero, Downing and on and on. Oh sorry i forgot, we only buy cheap foreign imports!!!

• 28-Aug-2011 17:18 | | Subir Kumar Roy  - disgrace
  

  Mean Lean,
  
  You may ban me forever from this site, but Arsene Wenger and faithful sidekick that is you can now rejoice in the glory that Arsenal has touched a new low today, 8-2 to ManU, if Arsene has even an infinitesimal iota of shame the least he could do is apologise and go back and manage some second division team in the french league.
  
  Better would be manage some school team where he could get not 18-19 years olds but some 8 to 9 year olds..........
  
  Silent Stan can shove the game DVD all the way up his a###ole and raise a toast to the fucking disgrace that he is owner of......

• 28-Aug-2011 17:27 | | Spectrum
  

  Arsene knows. LOL. I can picture Mean Lean and his fellow A.K.B.'s thumbing through their well worn excuse book already. Perhaps they should read "Alice In Wonderland "or "The Wizard Of Oz ", as they clearly enjoy fantasies.
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:32 | | Spectrum
  

  Goodson - Maybe we can sign a kid from the local blind school - can' t do much worse. ( Wouldn' t cost much, either ! ).
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:38 | | Spectrum
  

  " I believe in this team. You will see we have quality. "
  Any other quotable comments ? I'll try to find some more of his gems.
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:42 | | Spectrum
  

  Never mind. All is not lost. We still have Squillaci to come back. He'll be like a new signing.
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:42 | | MeanLean
  

  Hilariously 'Arsenal fans' out to boast tonight. Nowhere to been seen on Wednesday. The happiness in you guy's tones is crystal clear. I am very much hurt by the result today so will not be celebrating with you about my team's defeat.
  
  Enjoy yourselves

• 28-Aug-2011 17:44 | | MeanLean
  

  Spectrum at least wait until your team wins before trolling around Arsenal blogs boasting.
  
  "In Harry you rust"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:46 | | Spectrum
  

  But hey, it's all a media conspiracy, didn't you know ?
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:52 | | Spectrum
  

  Mean Lean - So let's hear your excuses, er, I mean "analysis", then.
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 17:57 | | john  - fergie even feels sorry for us
  

  Fergie: “We could have scored more but you don’t want to score more when Arsenal are as weakened as that” says it all really

• 28-Aug-2011 18:17 | | Man United Killa
  

  Good Point Spectrum..Where is Mean Lean and his bunch of unambitious AKBs..They are waiting till tomorrow when it has all cooled down and then start running typing their rubbish again!

• 28-Aug-2011 18:18 | | Man United Killa
  

  Solid my friend!just solid..he can shove that DVD where the sun dont shine!

• 28-Aug-2011 18:20 | | Man United Killa
  

  hahaha...Squillaci will be like a new singning..and we also have Gervinho coming back from suspension.He will be like a new signing too!

• 28-Aug-2011 18:22 | | Man United Killa  - come on now ML
  

  What are you talking about ML..Spectrum is a full fledged Gunner.Why would a spud come on here everyday to involve himself in a verbal spar with Gunners..I am talking of every blessed day...surely I'd like to think even our rivals have better things to do with their time!

• 28-Aug-2011 18:24 | | Man United Killa
  

  We are not hurt any less than you are..We are only singing the "i told you so" chorus..I was at Old Trafford myself.I am deeply hurt...so are all the Gunners out here...the problem is this squad is garbage and that is all we are saying!Change must come home!

• 28-Aug-2011 18:47 | | dkgooner  - New faces
  

  The problem with today's result is that it makes the need for reinforcements greater and the likelihood of anyone wanting to come less.
  I know it's still early but, as I said after Newcastle, this looks like being a long hard season.
  And it's been raining like fuck here today.

• 28-Aug-2011 18:49 | | Man United Killa  - Spectrum,John...
  

  Guys, but honestly, inasmuch as I feel sorry for myself with a result like this, I do feel really for Wenger much more.Hopefully he will open his eyes and sign some wc players...If only Wenger will sign, he can remind us of what a good manager he was!!!Enough of the garbage.We are not that far away..Just about 4 or 5 wc players away and then we are all set! Is that so difficult to grasp???or is Wenger just a retard?

• 28-Aug-2011 18:51 | | Man United Killa
  

  True..and prices are going to rise when Arsenal comes calling..I have a throbbing headache from witnessing this trashing at OT..I could not believe what I was watching...but lets face it, to put the club in the hands of players like Rosicky,Ramsey,Djourou,jenkinson,Traore,Song..and co is criminal!

• 28-Aug-2011 19:03 | | richie  - No Excuse's
  

  I'm not interested in the players we had out (there were quite a few) I'm only concerned with the lack of character displayed today. The lack of fighting spirit shown! Even if your not as good as your opposite number, I would've expected the players to give it their best if only for personal pride. En-mas they didn't!
  
  In years gone by I've gone to old trafford believing we could win. Realistically today all I expected was for the team to give the same fighting performance that they gave against Udinese, but todays performace was abject!
  
  The sale of our best 2 players didn't send "OUT" a message to the rest of the prem. It sent it "INWARDS" too! Any and all thoughts of winning anything this year must've left our own players when both Cesc & Nasri went! Because that team wasn't just poor it was the worst Arsenal team I have seen in nearly 50 years if it was judged on team spirt and pride alone. We were disgraceful!
  
  And questions need to be asked!!!!!

• 28-Aug-2011 19:17 | | Angry Gooner
  

  3 wins in 16 league games.The worst defeat in 115 years and all you can talk about is last wednesday.You really are the worst type of AKB.Today was a disgrace a humiliation.Its hasnt just crept up on us it has been coming.Any manager who puts his faith in youth and not good youth at that is committing football suicide.Nasi and Cesc could see it coming.Wenger has been losing the plot for the last 5 years.Today is the beginning of the end.We have £70m to spend but are manager wont spend it on QUALITY players.If Kroenke really cared about Arsenal he would sack Wenger tomorrow

• 28-Aug-2011 19:18 | | Spectrum
  

  Man Utd. Killa - You're trying to be charitable to him. But I don't have any sympathy for the man. He brought this on himself. Him, and the weak board who are complicit with him. We all know what he HAS done for us. The A.K.B.'s tediously remind us of it. In fact, that's all they've got to defend him with.
  He's had more than enough time to turn things around. To return to the Wenger we used to know, ( and respect ). But he's lost it. And he can't see his way of doing things is flawed and doesn't work. He still continues with his failed youth project. He fails to add experience and leadership to the team. His tactical ineptitude was on display again against United. Unlike Ferguson, he tolerates players who don't perform, and never admits responsibility, or accepts that he is at fault. He is not prepared to be flexible with his thinking, and this applies to all aspects of his management - not just the transfers area.
  Few if any, other clubs would give him so many chances to get it right. It's sad to see his deterioration, but if he chooses to tough it out after this result, then any remaining credit he had from the past, will evaporate, and he'll only have himself to blame. Go while you still have some dignity left, Arsene. If not, fan pressure will eventually force the board to make the decision for you. Remember - that NO-ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB. ( unless you're an A.K.B. it seems.)
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 19:25 | | Harold
  

  6.5% season ticket increase,Sell our best two players and dont replace them.Dont buy TWO CB's we have been crying out for .Sell our LB and put your faith in an injury prone replacement.Have only one striker.Buy a 1st division RB out of his depth.Buy a 17 year old 1st division player.Buy a Korean for £3m.Bank £60m. ******************But just listen to the AKB's come out with their excuses to defend their beloved leader.Our club is not a football club its a business

• 28-Aug-2011 19:26 | | Man United Killa  - Richie's Reply
  

  Richie, I can almost feel your disappointment as I held it in my hands.I was at OT screaming at the top of my voice for a good 90 minutes.But today was not to be the day.The way I see it, in a team like Arsenal injuries to players like TV,Gerv,and whoever I failed to mention should not spell doom.I think that we do not have enough wc players at the club.If the board wants to turn this club into a feeder club,they should say so.That way, we wont raise our expectations unreasonably.
  I have been a Gooner since the 70s and I agree with you on one thing."Heart" was no where to be found in today's game.
  Another point, the trend of todays game is such that,if you really want world class quality you have to open your checkbook.I am not for spending riduculous amounts of money but come on,you gotta spend something substantial to get something substantial.Of course,spending does not mean they will perform but you and I know that when Wenger spends a lot of money,he is bound to bring in a World Class player-so why not spend the freaking money.Trying to win on a cheap wont work and putting the club in the hands of Ramsey,Gibbs,Traore,Djourou,Song,Diaby,will get us no where...Its true that we have a bunch of talented youngsters coming throug but these kids are not ready..We need world class experience to keep the club challenging each year and pointing the way for the young players coming through.I dont know what kind of signal we are sending to the younger players in the club and prospective young players who will come through.My Arsenal is not a feeder club.This is Arsenal Football Club-The Gunners..We must walk the walk if we are going to talk the talk..and by the way..in the face of all this, I was happy with young Szenczy..We could easily have conceeded 10 withouth him.

• 28-Aug-2011 19:27 | | Man United Killa  - correction-Richie's reply
  

  I can almost feel your disappointment as if I held it in my hand*

• 28-Aug-2011 19:35 | | Man United Killa  - Facts!
  

  Haha Spectrum..I like your closing comment.."No one is bigger than the club..unless you are an AKB..lol..but hey I cant disagree with your points...I feel though that if Wenger will spend some money and get the right world class players, he would be unbeatable..but I guess that is just my fantasies..Knowing the man's history, he wont even bother.And In my opinion, if he wont spend some money it might be time to wallk..but wait a minute..its not gonna happen..the board are well please in him..A man after their own hearts!Saving them money and qualifying for the CL..what else?Case closed..suit case full of clothes! (punch line of a rap )

• 28-Aug-2011 19:37 | | Jason  - It doesnt get any worse than today
  

  Jenkinson Traore Djourou Koscienly Coquelin Rosicky and Arshavin are not good enough for a club as big as Arsenal.
  Tactically bankrupt.Wenger put a team out with one plan attack United.As usual no plan B
  And United annihilated us.Will QPR Swansea and Norwich let in 8 v Utd?
  
  We need Wenger to quit now before his legacy is further tarnished
  
  I never thought i would live to see Arsenal ever concede EIGHT goals in our game.Shameful
  
  Just 3 wins in 16 league games.That would mean the sack for 99% of managers

• 28-Aug-2011 19:38 | | Spectrum
  

  http://anotherarsenalblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/we-cannot-defend.html
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 19:51 | | Spectrum
  

  Man Utd. Killa - You're right the board are happy with him because he makes a profit for them at the expense of team building. That is why we show no ambition, despite Wenger stating after last season's debacle that we would.
  Knowing how Wenger is so characteristically stubborn, he's unlikely to quit. The board will back him of course - they have to be seen to be standing by the manager. But if results continue to go bad - ( and if you count the three league games so far and add them to last season's results - we have won just two of our last 19 ) -then the pressure will be be such that the board will have no option but to remove him. Ivan Gazidis said "only the fans can remove the manager." A popular revolt, in other words. The question is ; at what point will the tipping point come ?
  " ******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 19:54 | | Spectrum
  

  Harold, you got it !
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 20:03 | | Spectrum
  

  Mean Lean - The champions league qualifiers SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN NECESSARY.. We should never have been put in that situation in the first place, if we had been managed competently, and played to our potential. That is the point.
  "******************"

• 28-Aug-2011 20:24 | | Man United Killa
  

  Shaking my Head!

• 28-Aug-2011 21:14 | | mr h
  

  Shameful and humiliating. Yes, I am a devout AKB. This was the lowest point in my Arsenal life. I thought the 6-1 was bad, but today was horrendous.
  
  There are no excuses.
  
  The only plus is that it won't get any worse. Apart from RVP, TV, WS (maybe a few others) we have no quality players left to sell off. This had nothing to do with media conspiracies, but everything to do with the WORST Arsenal performance in 27 years.
  
  We will come back. To not think that true may be realistic, but what true fans are realists??? I know I'm not. No matter the manager or the players, I believe that The Arsenal will win any match the play.

• 28-Aug-2011 22:07 | | Andrew
  

  That was pretty bad, wasn't it?! The only relief is that Spurs got thrashed as well and are having their own dramas as a "spending club" tries to lure their playmaker away. I don't really see what new signings are going to do for us unless they are top drawer and not more promising kids. But what are the chances - anyone Arsene looks at will be snapped up by Chelsea or man City for twice the money just because they can. Why do Man City need Nasri? They don't - but at least we don't have him. Perhaps we should have sold our arses to a more extravagant and unprincipled billionaire?! Who knows....

• 28-Aug-2011 22:29 | | john
  

  Nothing much i can add to what you both said. Like Spectrum I dont have much sympathy for him, though it is sad that he is destroying his legacy. Im not surprised at todays result as it has been on the cards for quite a while now, since we moved to the souless bowl imo. When the finances and self-sustaining model became more important than winning trophies, it stared to reflect on the players,2nd rate players were brought in and sometimes none, half the team were playing out of position. last jan for example a few quality players and we could have won the league. But we dont want to kill our young players of quality but continue with project youth as spectrum said. not only does he tolerate 2nd rate players he makes them believe they are the best. What was it he said in his post match interview, in England you think the answer is to buy players. what the f***. he never changes, never sees the blindly obvious flaws with our team, our lack of belief, our lack of ambition, and our lack of quality players that we need, and it all filters down from him and the board, but cesc and nasri seen through his shit and did what they had to do. He then said we may need to strengthen in defence in midfield and up front, but in the same breath he said we look internally as well and promote from within. 8-2 was promoting from within. even with the injuries and suspensions back i agree with Merse that only a few players would get in the united team, verm and rvp imo. Arsene thinks he is Arsenal but im glad to say he will be gone soon (and hopefully the board) and the Arsenal will move on and hopefully what happens on the pitch becomes the priority rather than filling the greedy bastards coffers in the board room.

• 28-Aug-2011 23:04 | | Man United Killa
  

  lol@John..You and Spectrum sure do have a merciful bone in your body..but I understand your points perfectly...To lose in the manner we did is nothing short of criminal.I was lost for words at Old Traffored as I watched my Arsenal getting shredded into pieces.I know I am going to have a hard time sleeping tonight..It's beyond a nightmare!

• 28-Aug-2011 23:07 | | Man United Killa  - Question for you mr. h
  

  Mr. h, so in your own honest opinion,what do you think is a possible way forward?Do we need to spend?Or do you think we lost because of absences to Song,Gerv,Verm and Wilshere? Or is it just a tactical hitch?

• 29-Aug-2011 00:29 | | richie  - Muk I agree
  

  Szenczy was our only stand out, so there are even positives to be taken from this disgrace.
  Its clear we are no longer in need of a number one, whether a back up keeper is needed instead of Pole N0. 2 is for another day.
  
  Lets start at the begining we've got a GK. In Kosh & Djourou we've got 2 potential CB's for the future. In Vernaeling we've got one CB as of so at a minimum we desparately need another proper CB (I'd prefer a proper center half for those who know the difference)?
  
  In Jenkinson we've got a potential full back (or even a fill in anywhere across the back line) but anyone could see today that he lacks expirence. In the future I expect him to come good but he can't come good that quickly even with great coaching. Sagna's a very good full back so in that position all we need is a younger understudy. That means we need another full back unless we've already got one in either Gibbs or Traore? Both have potential (that word again) but neither seem to be the finished article. Am I wrong?
  
  Moving onwards - In both Song & Pong IMHO we've now got 2 great defensive midfielders, both are a little impetuous and a bit naughty, but we've needed a bit of steal, a bit of grit and (dare I say it ) a bit of nastiness in the middle to counter some of our rivals who have players who've been able to bully us in the past. In Wiltshire we might have the makings of a playmaker? But love him as I do (and I do) Jack ain't the finished article, not in the way Cesc was.
  
  In Ramsey we have a work horse, but thats all I've seen so far. In Shava we have massive potential unfulfilled. Unfortunately Shava hasn't got the workrate to be a midfielder or the goal scoring ability to be 2nd striker. So I'm not entirely sure where his best position is? In Rosicky we have less potential but better fulfilment of what he's got, unfortunately he's not a good enough playmaker for us. He's never gonna be a Cesc fill in is he? So we've got Jack but he needs at least playmaker partner now. And we could really do with culing the midfield of all those who ain't about to cut it.
  
  We need a first 11 and a 2nd 11 made up of all the potentially great kids who are coming up to make our 25 prem squad. Lets forget the 2nd 11 for now and lets concentrate on what we need to make a full first 11- So thats 1 Full back & 1 Center back in defence
  1 creative playmaker to partner Jack in midfield. A Striker to partner RvP- As Vela & Bendtner ain't around. Who knows if the Korean is up to scratch or he's been dragged in to make up the numbers.
  We need a minimum of 4 players in, the playmaker is the tough one as they ain't easy to find. There isn't one of Cesc's abilities around unless we are talking mega bucks.

• 29-Aug-2011 00:57 | | Man United Killa  - Yes and No
  

  Richie, You will notice that you have used the word "potential" many times..Now I dont have a problem with that but potential according the Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary means "One that CAN develop into something or be developed in the future"..So there is a good chance some of them may not make it at Arsenal.As you and I know,there are plenty of youngsters who have come and gone not because they were not good enough but not good enough FOR ARSENAL!..Or for some other reasons like lack of playing time or homesickness.
  I agree with many of your points but there are a bunch of players who are clearly not going to make the cut or maybe they will but why put the ambition of the club in their hands while they are still in apprenticeship?
  Lets begin with Djourou-I like Djourou just because he is trying his best but IMO Djourou is not Arsenal material.He is fast,strong and brainless.He knows little about reading the game and positioning.He shows little intelligence on the pitch.As a long time football fan,I am sure you know it takes a little more than just speed and power to be a good defender.
  I am not a super fan of Koscielny but I can tell you he is probably the most intelligent defender in the team.Koscielny does not have the size but surely has the brain.Why else do you think he and TV always make a good partnership?Defenders need to be smart-even more than strikers.That said,I think Kos will be a better backup than first teamer.We need a bully at the back next to TV.
  As for Gibbs and Traore, I dont even want to talk about how much potential because no matter how much they have,its not good enough to be an Arsenal first teamer-Man United's Fabio and Rafael are of the same age but if you look at the stats, they are far better than Gibbs and Traore.They know how to attack and defend.That's something you should be doing fairly decently by 21.Maybe you are right..they will develop to be world beaters but until they become that, they need to be backup..not starters week in week out.Both of them,just like Wilshere have been on loan..how come they aint made the cut still..given that they are older?its a matter of quality.
  I do not have many complaints about Song and Frimpong but come on dont you think a better DM than song (for competition) with Frimpong as backup is overdue?
  As for the signing of Park Chu Young, I dont have a lot to say about it at the moment except I dont expect a lot of goals from him as much as I expect assists and defense-splitting passes because he seems to be a natural at it.If we are lucky we might see him net a free kick or two.Those will be my initial expectations of him..the rest will follow.
  But overall, I think we have a lot of youngster coming through but so much of our success is pinned on them and that is what the problem is.They need world class players for role models and that costs money.What has happened to all the money we made from sale?There should be at least 50 million to spend.

• 29-Aug-2011 01:12 | | richie  - Think about it Muk
  

  No Muk Spectrum didn't post after the Udinese win. After today's result I knew we'd be hearing from him loud and clear. He gets off slaging everything about our club, I'm gutted about this weekend and I'll engage in all sorts of chat with any Gooner. But I know the difference between someone wanting better things and arguing for the changes that could bring those better things, and someone who's only aim in life is to slag off our club and encourage others to do the same.
  
  By all means criticise our players and manager after a result like todays. By all means tell everyone that our board needs to do more. But offer up constructive idea's about what you as a Gooner think our club should do to improve things and move our club forward. There's been pleny of fake Gooners on Gooner blogs. They LOL when they log off because they've spent hours criticising us on our own blogs and they've even got us to criticise ourselves.

• 29-Aug-2011 01:34 | | richie  - realistically
  

  There is no easy way out of todays result because its not a question of spending a few quid to replace Cesc. IMHO the only player of Cesc's quality around is Snieder and he'd cost mega bucks to buy and mega bucks to maintain in wages. Look what happened when it was understood we were looking at Juan Mata Chelski stepped in and offered the player twice our top wage structure money. Playmakers of class ain't available off the peg, they're a "savile row" job. A Nasri type of player is replaceable, but not a Cesc type, they are irreplacible.

• 29-Aug-2011 01:51 | | Man United Killa  - I know Richie but not spectrum
  

  Hmmm.True.the words you say are true..Sometimes fans of other teams get on Gooner websites to drive a wedge between Gooners but I really think Spectrum is a concerned Gooner...Only,he has his own way of expressing his disappointment I believe.

• 29-Aug-2011 01:55 | | Man United Killa  - Ok..fine point but..
  

  ..but what abou all the money from sales of players?Arent those supposed to go straight back into investment?Plus you never know we might be able to get someone who does a pretty good job but IMO Richie,we must be willing to part with some big bucks to get some big players..In todays era of footy, you have to part with some money to get some quality? Barca spend 35 million pounds( though cheap) just to get Cesc and other clubs do similar things.I am not saying we should spend 35 million for a player..but we should be prepared to part with for instance 25 million to get a striker who can make a difference if he is truly world class and we are confident there is a good chance he can deliver but trying to win on the cheap wont happen.I am so disappointed..this is surley one of my lowest days as a Gooner!

• 29-Aug-2011 02:21 | | richie  - I'm of the opinion Liam Brady has answers
  

  Brady's claim that many of Arsene's transfers have fallen though because the board won't sanction the wages of big incoming signings has a ring of truth to it. I can't think of a single reason Brady would lie about something like that on Irish TV. The rumour is that all the players wages have to be paid for from the season ticket sales. The board members ain't putting in any money from their own pockets.
  
  It seems that we need to offload players with big wages before we can sign new players. If thats true? (And as I said I can't see why LB would lie) it explains why Arsene has been hamstrung in the transfer market. Also if the board won't break the wage structure then kids is all we can sign.
  
  You mention us becoming a feeder club and maybe the board likes that idea (for now) until more debt is paid off? The above explains how the board can say there's money to buy players (never mind £50M we should have £100M) but how do we sign players if only low wages can be paid in personal terms. A highly paid player has to leave before we can offer another those same terms to another. If true its madness!

• 29-Aug-2011 02:29 | | richie  - First 11 should all be first class
  

  All the young ones with potential should make up our 2nd 11 team. If a first team player is out give a second string player the chance to step up and into the first team. Everyone in the first 11 should have an understudy.

• 29-Aug-2011 03:34 | | richie  - CL final Arse vs Barca low point
  

  Walking around Paris all night unable to sleep in 06 was a really low point for me! But this feels like a really dirty low. Its hard to explain but I feel dirty. Its like I've been abused!

• 29-Aug-2011 03:42 | | richie
  

  Refer to the above post re- liam brady

• 29-Aug-2011 03:49 | | Man United Killa
  

  Wow...this sounds about right...It's no secret that I don't like Wenger very much following our streak of underperformances but sometimes I think to myself.we do have a stubborn manager with a failing project but there has to be more..it can't all be Wenger's fault...I knew the greedy board had a hand in it.. but Riche, It's still Wenger's fault for signing such young players and giving them such fat paychecks..he made the first call by mismanaging the wages-and now we are in a tight spot.
  The way I see it, we are destined for more disappointment unless we make some sacrifices...something's got to give...and finally I think there are a couple of players we must offload...
  And oh...if the vision is to make us a feeder club, the least honest thing to do is make it clear to the fans that we are dropping the bar..

• 29-Aug-2011 03:50 | | Man United Killa
  

  True ....

• 29-Aug-2011 04:01 | | Man United Killa
  

  Lol...It's a shame isn't it...the only thing I can take out of this is that it will be like a breath of fresh air when we finally return to winning ways...in life you enjoy the good more when you've been through the bad...seems to me that Wenger has grown tactically inept over the last few years too...too many passes and little to show for it in the final third

• 29-Aug-2011 07:44 | | Albert Nyambe  - Zazi
  

  Something else we are all missing! Until the wage structure at our club changes we will not be able to retain our best players. We may buy quality just for the likes of citeh to tempt them away from the emirates. Extremely rare for a player like Cesc to take a pay cut to play for the team he loves...

• 29-Aug-2011 08:19 | | indian gunner forever  - strange to find some 'gooners' soooooo happy......
  

  On a horrible day like this it is strange and disgusting to find people like Spectrum & Man United Killa going on and on in this forum..........
  And yeah for all their posing as faithful gooners they just can't hide their glee at what has happened. You get a sense that this is just the sort of thing they wanted to happen. Too bad that a club has fans(so called) like that. Yeah we should have strengthened earlier - valid point but they make this sound like every inch of grass at our club has turned purple or something.............

• 29-Aug-2011 08:37 | | Disgusted from Holloway
  

  I was embarassed to be a Gooner yesterday.We have suffered bad defeats before.But that was humiliation,clueless,tactic less,Shameful.
  The manager should resign today.That was the lowest of the low.Wenger says we were tired.TIRED.How dare he insult us the fans
  Go now and take his no defence tactics with him.Bring in a manager who can coach players to defend
  
  And ML stop defending Wenger blindly because of what he did 7 years ago.Managers are judged on what they do now not what they did in the past.Arsenal FC is much more important than Wenger.But you lap up every excuse Wenger comes out with.If you buy a 1st division defender thats what you get a 1st division defender.If you buy premiership defenders(Jones) thats what you get premiership defenders

• 29-Aug-2011 08:57 | | Thomas
  

  We needed one or two commanding CB's.It was the priority this summer.Anyone who knew anything about football knew that................except one man.He bought a 17 year old for £12m!!!!.The man is mad.What is happening to our great club.Then he offers £6m for an England CB
  
  Wenger has used our club as his project.Not one person at the club will stand up to him.And tell him he is wrong.Its the Emperor's new clothes
  
  If Ferguson had gone 6 season without a trophy he would leave or be sacked.We give our manager a £7m a year contract
  
  A manager who doesnt fear the sack is a manager who wont change
  
  Yesterday has been building up for 5 years

• 29-Aug-2011 09:19 | | henry  - Defence you Wanker Wenger
  

  I feel so sorry for Jenkinson he shouldnt be anywhere near the premiership.He is a division 1 player.I blame Wenger.Bargin basement signings
  But Koscielny and Djourou are no better than division 1 players.Do they know how to defend?, can they play the offside?A defenders job is to defend.Koscielny Djourou and Squillaci are all crap
  Who is coaching them.We have a great defender coaching the youth team.What a fucking waste he should be coaching defence of the first team and telling Wenger what defender are shit.
  But Wenger will not listen to anyone
  The lack of quality all over the pitch at Arsenal is frightening

• 29-Aug-2011 11:53 | | richie  - Muk they'd never admit that
  

  That won't happen because they still need to sell tickets and merchandise plus they have the advertising boys to please so there's not going to be any admiting to lowering of the bar.
  
  As for it being Wengers fault, in the early Wenger years we didn't spend any big money (As you'll remember we've never been a big spending club anyway) so the way to hang on to young up and coming players was to pay them well (Thats pay them well for youngsters). We've never payed our players young or old the wages Manu'er Chelski or now Money City pay their players.
  
  We can't compete with Chelski in buying power or the wage paying stakes. Chelski lose money every year, but that debt is picked up & written off by Abromovich. The same goes for the richest club in the world, the Arabs at Money City can write off any amount. So how can we compete with that? Simples we can't.
  
  None of our current board is willing to do what Abromovich & the Arabs are doing, apart from the Manu'er supporting Usmanov and he'll only do that if it gives him more control of Arsenal FC (A frightening prospect). He has no loyalty to Arsenal so he could do what the Glasers have done to Manu'er to Arsenal. We'd end up like Leeds of a few years back.
  
  Man City has now taken over the top spot for losing money from Chelski. Next up despite being the top selling club in merchandise Man U (because of its debt) are losing money every year, without another Ronaldo to sell to balance their books the Glaser's are having to float some Manu'er shares on Singaporean stock market to cover the loses. They couldn't float them in London because it would raise too many questions about their loses, year in year out. They need money to pay for the signings and wages because they are living above their means. Our club is being run sensibly because we are living within our means but with the money doping thats going on its even harder for us to compete.
  
  I think its very simplistic to blame Wenger for the current situation at the club, not only that but I think that with the resorces he's been given Arsene Wenger has worked miracles year in year out. I guess that makes me an AKB in many peoples eye's but no other manager has come close to doing what Arsene has done. Thats a fact check the stats.
  
  I'm even more outspoken because I blame David Dein for the turmoil at the club, he sold off his shares in Arsenal to Usmanov which for a supposed Arsenal supporter would be close to putting the clubs future in the hands of an opponent.

• 29-Aug-2011 12:11 | | richie  - Times have changed!
  

  Try to remember our famed back 4 wouldn't be able to play the off-side trap anymore because the rules have changed. The offside rule is no longer clear, players are active or inactive depending on the Ref or his assistances interpretation. Our old back 4 would probably be too slow for the modern rule changed game. So I'm not so sure about whether they would-could coach defense as it is now. Defenders are required to be far quicker than they used to be back in the day.
  
  P.S I wouldn't pay £17mil for Cahill even though we need another defender.

• 29-Aug-2011 12:22 | | Man United Killa
  

  Worrying my friend.I hope this is just the motivation we need to start showing intent.Something must be done and fast...

• 29-Aug-2011 12:28 | | Man United Killa  - Question
  

  I wonder what will become of all the money we made from Cesc and Nasri sale? We have not been getting replacements for the past 3 years.There is only one result when you sell your players and dont get replacements-weaker squad that and that leads to poorer performances-like we witnessed yesterday.

• 29-Aug-2011 12:31 | | Man United Killa
  

  I agree with your Cahill assessment...but I would gladly pay 20 million for a defender like Hummels.

• 29-Aug-2011 12:34 | | Spectrum
  

  Man Utd. Killa - Thanks for the support, mate. Appreciated. You obviously have more insight than some on here.
  " ******************"

• 29-Aug-2011 12:38 | | richie  - Feeder club??????
  

  AN you hit the nail on the head untill the wage structure at our club changes we will be a feeder club for those clubs who can turn a players head with the offer of big money. Cashley Cole (a supposed Gooner) was the 1st to have his head turned by the big bucks. Next up Flamini (Another player from Marseille) just as Nasri after him saw £€$ in front of him. By the way I wouldn't be surprised if (our old much loved at Arsenal) Patrick Vieria had a hand in Nasri's move away from us, what with his new position at Money City.
  
  Cesc is/was a different type of player. Arsene Wenger sold Cesc the dream of playing the type of football he loved. Remember Arsenal were playing super fast attacking football with Henry, Pires, Vieria and Bergkamp when Cesc arrived. At that time Barca were in transition they weren't playing the way they are now under Guadiola.
  Cesc just wants to play the football he loves I don't think money is his god.

• 29-Aug-2011 13:03 | | dkgooner  - Sign of the times?
  

  Yesterday very depressing, not just the defeat but the manner of it. And when it comes to the crunch, the buck does indeed stop at the manager's door. I would say he has until November/December - no big improvement and I would agree he needs to bite the bullet and go.
  The problem though is money. We now have three clubs who seem to have unlimited funds, and the new financial rules will take some time to have an impact, if they ever do. I'm sure they will find all the loopholes (lawyers working on it right now, no doubt) and closing them will delay it even longer.
  It's a sad prospect - it means that they will be able to share all the trophies and most of the other clubs will be powerless to do anything about it, unless they can find another Mr Mafia Moneybags who wants an expensive toy. And what will that do for their gates? People will stop going and the Premiership will be really boring. And please don't mention Usmanov - if he takes over, that's me finished. I stopped going to Highbury under GG because I had difficulty staying awake and the product was not worth the money they were asking. I've never gone back and never will go to the Emirates because I still think the prices are a piss take, even though the product has improved.
  Think I'll join my wife watching tennis.

• 29-Aug-2011 13:16 | | richie  - I wish I had the Answers I've asked
  

  The money ain't being spent on players or wages so the only hope is that its bringing down the clubs overall debt. We still have the 5th highest debt in the prem so "If" its being lowered that would be in the long term interest of the club. I rang and asked an old family friend who works at the club and played in the 70's double winning side. If he knows where the wedge is going he ain't saying.

• 29-Aug-2011 13:20 | | mr h
  

  MUK- there is always a way forward and even though I'm an AKB, I'm starting to see the future as one without Arsene. The game seems to have left him behind. More importantly, I see him as a man fighting to win the league with his hands tied behind his back. I am increasingly seeing the board as the real handbrake to Arsenal success.
  
  I honestly do not feel that Wenger is to blame for the transfer failings.
  
  HOWEVER.... If we get behind this team, this season will be salvageable. Without the real support of the fans, this young team will not be able to do that. This is what we have and we must support the players. Screw the board and the behind the scenes bullshit we cannot control. What we can control is the support and motivation we can provide our team with. Especially now in such a time of heartache. No matter our personal feelings about the management, now more than ever, our team NEEDS our support. They need us to be there and reassure them that all is not lost and they have lived to fight another day. To get on our teams back now when their morale is at their lowest is definitely not the answer. We expect them to play with their hearts on their red and white sleeves, and they expect us to support them with our hearts on our red and white sleeves.

• 29-Aug-2011 16:09 | | Spectrum
  

  feeno - Cat got your tongue ? Your silence is deafening.
  "******************"

• 29-Aug-2011 21:21 | | john
  

  nice one Spectrum

• 30-Aug-2011 01:07 | | Man United Killa
  

  hahaha..Spectrum..there is no substitute for the truth..the truth is out..so feeno has no more fabrications for us...he is just a punk!
  John,what are we gonna do now that it seems our club is a feeder club?It hurts to admit but it sure seems like it.no?Why on God's beautiful earth would any sane player accept 80k when they can get 100-120k at the team next door?
  I blame (no I hate) the board for being so callous and mean..at a time when they should be thinking of the identity of the club they think of wage structures.
  And I blame Wenger for successfully filling the club with substandard youngsters for most part, who are doing a good job of draining the wage budget.

• 30-Aug-2011 01:13 | | Man United Killa
  

  Mr H..I have to admit that I am humbled by your post.I blame both the board and Wenger.The board for their greed and Wenger for his staunch belief in constant under-performing youngster who are taking their pounds of flesh of the wage budget.They have to get paid.no?
  I agree that Wenger's hands may be tied but he has not helped his cause any better by his performances as a manger in the last couple of years.He has lost the plot.Our football is one directional...no plan b..no shooting...too much passing...the list is endless.
  He has become tactically inept IMO..But like you said all we can do is to give support.It's not the players fault that he is rubbish but still on the first team.Its the manager's call.
  Hopefully this bad dream will end soon.

• 30-Aug-2011 02:10 | | richie
  

  Yeah Mat Hummels looks really good alongside Subotic, but he was injuried a lot I seem to recall something like that? Wasn't that why Bayern sold him?

• 30-Aug-2011 02:16 | | Man United Killa
  

  Yeah...actually you make a solid point..Hummels is a fantastic player but for such an injury prone player maybe Arsenal is not the place for him-God knows Arsenal is already the home of injuries.Makes me wonder,did our medics ever actually take anything like even a basic first aid class?They seem to be more rubbish that half of the players themselves!With all these injuries every season,me and one of my Gooner friends felt something just aint right with our medics.Possibly a bunch of dropouts maybe.Or maybe they were not in class when the prof taught how to take care of footballers.

• 30-Aug-2011 19:34 | | john  - Usmanov
  

  Well, Muk, it seems the self sustaining model has run its course, was good 5-10 yrs ago but times have changed, big TIME. we are either a big club or were not, is money the root of all evil? no, the love of it is, and EPL is all about money, as is barca and madrid. I personally dont like the obscene money in wages, players etc as we see with citeh and chavs I think the only place the self sustaining model is practiced well is the bundesliga where debt is kept to a minimum and managed well. If we want to challenge. citeh, chavs and manure, we have to change the traditional Arsenal way of low wages (except for the dross) and low spending. If we cant or wont change this then its mediocrity and the staus quo. dkgooner above said he would be finished with Arsenal if Usmanov came in. So its the principled stand and traditionalist Arsenal way which imo will keep us in mid table mediocrity (if were lucky) or its change with the times and Usmanov comes in and we buy buy buy . I want us to win and challenge so im all for Usmanov to take over which will keep us at the top level. it may not guarantee success, but will guarantee a greater chance of achieving it. depending on what you read and listen to Wenger, imo has full reign of Arsenal and all the control he needs, and i blame him for our downfall at present. When the Emirates was built we were told it was to compete with the best and the repayments for it would not affect transfers in anyway. Arsene was perfectly suited for the board and they thought we could keep up with the big boys by following Arsenes project youth and buying mostly cheap dross. Ill admit we have been close these last few years but our squad was not good enough to go all the way. As i said before if we had bought a defender and goalie last jan i honestly believe we would have won the league. he didnt buy and half the team was now playing out of position and injuries piling up. The final straw for me, (which was music to the boards ears imo) and i still cant fathom why it wasnt for any Arsenal fan, was when Wenger said - he wouldnt mind coming 2nd for the next 20 yrs and top 4 is as good as a trophy. i was more shocked and annoyed than i was at our cl final defeat. He had thrown in the towel and the humiliation on Sunday was the end result. As Spectrum says " In Arsene we Rust "

• 30-Aug-2011 19:44 | | john  - wait and see
  

  Its a pity that we are now out panic buying to save Arsene. Im happy with the big German though, i just dont know about the Korean or Santos.

Write comment

Your Details:

Name:

Comment:

Title:

Message:

Powered by Compojoom comment 4.1.7 stable