am hearin d wind of win

Christ, several months behind the fans once again, Wenger has realised Arshavin doesn't give a f*** any more. As you say very typical of him to throw in a youngster he doesn't even bring on as a sub usually in one of the biggest games of the season, but glad to see him start ahead of the apathetic Russian.

Well A.K.B.'s - W.T. F. was THAT ? Take off our best player to bring on a useless twat in Arshavin, who ends up costing us the match ! Mean Lean, you're going to have to perform some verbal gymnastics to explain this clanger away. But of course I expect you to give it your best shot. Good luck with that. Excuses due in 10, 9, 8, 7..........

Arsene knows ? He sure does. L.O.L.

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Whoever says in wenger we trust is simply dense. otherwise arsen, arshavin, djoru, ramsey, should leave for our futures sake

You quickly read what happened in the game ey Speccy?

You obviously wasn't watching the game as you were clearly busy doing other things. I'm not really interested in arguing with rivals fans.

We were not good enough, the better side won today.AOC looks great, hope to see more from him. We will improve once our injured players return but we cannot make many more mistakes. It's going to be tough.

First of all, I have always supported Wenger to right the Arsenal ship and still believe that he can do it (clearly with new personnel injected into the team), but today's defeat has to go down as the worst defeat in the eyes of the fans in a very long time. This is worst than the 8-2 drubbing at Old Trafford back in August! What the fuck was Wenger thinking??? I am flabbergasted! You take out your best player on the pitch when we have just worked so hard to equalize with the Ox assisting RVP and put on the worst player (form-wise) available, who not surprisingly, contributed to Man U's victory. I have never screamed more loudly and more bitterly at the TV than when I saw Oxlade-Chamberlain's number put up for Arshavin's. I just knew then that we were headed staright to another painful and agonizing defeat. What Wenger did today was "criminal" in the eyes of every Arsenal fan and even the neutrals. There is no excuse for it.

When we lost last weekend, I blamed the players for lack of effort and determination. I support Wenger and want him to carry on managing the many talented players we have at Arsenal, but today's defeat is squarely on his shoulders. Another one like this and my support for him will completely disappear. I am very angry right now, I need to go lock myself in a dark room to cool off, away from my wife and kids before I hurt someone physically or emotionally. I really hate what supporting Arsenal has done to my health and family life in the last few years. There are good defeats like the one to Manchester City in the Carling Cup and bad defeats like any of the last 3 PL matches.The bad defeats are becoming far too many, in my opinions...

Djourou must never play for Arsenal as a Right-Back again! What a waste of space he is! I lost count of the number of times he went M.I.A. on the right side of our defence. Ramsey is really starting to piss me off. He holds on to the ball far too long and dribbles too much. At one point in the first half, he could have squared it off to the unmarked Vermaelen on the edge of United's box, but he didn't and lost the ball. I was glad to see Vermaelen screaming at him for not passing. I have said it many times before, Ramsey is not ready to be a starter. The sooner Jack Wilshere returns, the better for all of us. Arshavin is as good as gone. Better give the Ox the job, with Park ready to sub in. I still don't know what Wenger sees in Arshavin (form-wise) that the rest of us have failed to see in the past one and have seasons. At least Park finally got his first minute of PL action.

Wenger said a few weeks ago that it would be stupid to drop points because we have no proper Fullbacks. Well, we almost at the close of the transfer window and have dropped every single point since it swang open on the 01st. I wonder how he really feels about that now... Another great weekend to take advantage of Spurs, Chelsea, and Liverpool all dropping points and we failed. Do we actually really want this Champions League spot or not? Totally un-freaking-beleivable!!!

Anyway, rant over.
Maybe...

Gino92, I am amazed by your continued belief in Wenger after not only a BAD result but our third straight defeat (in the league). Such blind faith in this man after the past 6 or so seasons and how far we have fallen behind is.....well.......difficult to comprehend.

I thought back in December (yes even when we were grinding out a 1-1 draw with Wolves) that we'd finish 16 points behind the eventual winners of the league but I fear its likely to be 20+ points.

It'll be interesting to read the thoughts of the Wenger lovers after this latest setback.

Oh, one final point, before anyone mistakenly thinks that I am bloating after this loss- far from it. I take no pleasure whatsoever in my team losing nor the manner of the defeat. I am annoyed and ashamed by Wenger's post match comments- he must have been watching a different game?

"you feel the Manchester United team is a bit more mature in every position than we are" - maybe an admission his project youth dream has failed?

"People are not conscious that we miss 10 players" - sorry but hasn't every man and his dog been talking for the past couple of months about the long list of injuries and the need for loan signings??!!! Wenger made some stupid comment on Sky earlier about the fact we'll have defensive players back in 10 days (we'll see how accurate this is come the beginning of Feb) and therefore it wasn't possible to "sign someone for 10 days"- what a ridiculous comment because not one TV channel, newspaper or supporter has urged him to do that. What people have been urging is for him to sign someone on loan until the end of the season.

"there are also a lot of positives from this game" -sorry but name one. just one.

I don't know about anyone else, but I cringe when this man talks now. He honestly makes my blood boil with the nonsense which comes out of his mouth. Why can't he say it like it really is and not keep saying "it's difficult not to get rewarded" or some rubbish like that.

Is it just me or does Wenger embarrass you as an Arsenal supporter with the rubbish he comes out with?

but I hate to say I told you so (back in August/September). Yes, we won a few games in October/November but that proved a bit of an illusion. Tactics are wrong. The defence is still a shambles (injuries notwithstanding) and our midfield is not too crash hot at the moment. Some of the decision-making (by players, coaches, manager, directors) is questionable and where was the fight/desire against Fulham, Swansea and the first half of the United game (it picked up a little in the second half, but they had enough chances to put the game to bed). Villa will fancy their chances next week.

Am sure Pika and others will defend Wenger to the hilt and abuse those who have questioned the tactcs/happenings at the Grove, but it seems some of the crowd are seemingly coming to the same view that I proposed last year (and was proposing for a while before that).

I don't feel great about advocating someone losing their job, especially for someone who was phenomenal between 1997 and 2006 but enough is enough. The legend is being tainted. I only wonder if a successor has been identified...

I bet Walcott must be happy about all this chat around the substitution. No-one else mentions what I thought - why Chamberlain and not Walcott? Chamberlain did more in his 75 mins than Walcott has done all season. Once again went AWOL in a big match. The most over-hyped player ever to pull the shirt on. Sell Now Arsene.
That said, there are positives from the game: Chamberlain, Koscielny, Yennaris, Koscielny, TV back and lasting the full 90 minutes, and Koscielny.
Looking ahead (do a lot of that, don't we?), we can now see that we have several youngsters who are going to make it in the first team - apart from the above two, there's Wilshere, Coquelin, Miquel, probably Frimpong, and hopefully Afobe if he can stop getting injured in training every week. Then there's Bartley who's getting some real experience under his belt at Rangers. Quite a batch coming through.
But what a buy Koscielny has been - who says AW can't buy defenders? And he's still got a lot of years left in him.
Best team won today - even when we equalised, I still thought they would go and get another - didn't expect AW to give it to them on a plate though.

Disgruntled gooner; you said it urself from 97 to 2006, but just cos u haven't won anything in 5 yrs u are asking for his head? Do u even realise there are clubs great as arsenal in pl thats gone much longer without even getting as close as we've all these to winning a trophy?
Yes Wenger made that one mistake of subin AOC for asharvin, but that aside, arsenal cld/shld still have won the game. Should Wenger come in and score that brilliant chance RVP missed, what about walcotts..?always moaning about Wenger whenever something goes wrong, dont u guys ever get tired of heaping everything on him? We should all be old enough to know that sometimes things just go wrong cos the go wrong.

to dkgooner: i don't believe too many gooners didn't think the same thing as you did, why not walcott instead of the ox. i thought the same thing and probably most of us who were watching the game thought the same thing. when we equalised, i thought we would probably win the game, at the very least end it level, but what bothered me the most wasn't arshavin coming in, but that our best player on the night had to go out for him. wenger gave the game away, simple as that. anyone tell me they didn't think that when arshavin came in. i felt like turning off the tv at that moment. he wasn't thinking, lost the plot. i mean it seems as if the man is not watching the game, and simply has a plan, and sticks with it. and i'm sure many will agree: this is my first eleven, arshavin comes in for oxlade at the 75th (because of seniority) to get 1/2 hour of play and park in the 80th to give him some minutes. what about actually watching the game and acting accordingly? this is sooo depressing. it isn't the first time either, it's the norm. damn. always a gooner, but it doesn't get any easier. cheers.

Wenger is a great manager who has always put his complete faith in his players, win or lose. If I were a professional player, I would want a manager like that. Someone who can chew me out privately but support me publicly. My continued belief in Wenger stems from the fact he has proven in the past that he can turn things around even with very limited resources. I believe that if he had just a quarter of the money that Money City has spent in the past year alone, Wenger could have built a much stronger squad, able to compete week in and week out. We just don't know what is going on financially at Arsenal behind the scene. Silent Stan sure isn't talking at all about his plans for the future of Arsenal FC. That is why I think Wenger is doing the best he can for now. The current players in general are not repaying him his faith in them. Therein lies the main issue...

That being said, I still stand by my earlier comment. He must shoulder some or most of the blame for the Man U defeat. The Ox substitution was very ill-advised and ill-timed because we were on the ascendency and were taking the game to United through Oxlade-Chamberlain when the inexplicable happened. Fatigue is a very weak reason to justify it because the Ox has barely played this season (Carling Cup and Champions League excepted).

I just hope that something like this never happen again.

Gino92 - Correction ; Wenger WAS a great manager, he plainly isn't anymore. And his faith in his players is part of the problem, because it's misplaced and unjustified faith. As you said, your belief in him is based on the OLD WENGER we all knew and loved. That was before his star started to fade steadily. And you honestly believe he can somehow magically recapture that magic he once had, and restore our glory days ?

There comes a point where faith turns to gullibility. If you can't see that the only "plan for the future" this board has is to bank the profits they make, and not to reinvest them in the team, that continues to back a compliant manager who facilitates this, then sadly, you've reached that point. According to you, Wenger is "doing the best he can". A manager lives or dies on results ( though uniquely not in our case, it seems ).

Well after fifteen years in charge ,when your best is no longer getting those required results, what should you do ? Gamble the future success of the team in the desperate hope that he will "eventually " get it right ? Give him another fifteen years ? If so, you're either very brave or simply foolish.

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Tony, for the record I'm 41 this year. Not sure what business that is to you. Anyway, we'll see how much love you have for Wenger come the summer when RVP departs. I also predict that 3 to 4 of the squad will also leave and your beloved boss will not manage to attract any quality (just more youthful players full of potential) to replace because we will finish outside the CL places.

Anyway, what is there to wonder? I just make my position very clear to all and I do not hide away. I think Wenger is in decline and has been for some time. I love my club and hate to see them fall from grace. I present my opinion and facts to back up these opinions. I defend myself when attacked personally by so called supporters who just enjoy roaming these blogs looking to bully.

That isn't the only mistake he has made over the last few years - dismantling he Invincibles too quickly, not having a defensive coach, bottling some signings when the cash was there (Mata being the perfect example this season), not buying more senior players to help with the kids post-2008, questionable tactical decisions, persisting with poor signings etc etc etc!

I will reiterate something I have said previously, just because it was great before and has been on a downward trend for a while (arguably since 200, doesn't mean you can keep going. At some point you have to realise things are going wrong and change course. Unfortunately his bloody-mindedness and that fact he turns a profit for the board makes that improbable.

All power to you Colesy. You and I have similar views. I too am a bitterly disillusioned Gunners supporter who has given up on ever seeing the club SHOW any ambition, let alone realise it under this weak greedy board, and the out of touch joke we currently call a manager.

Like you, I tell it like it is, and don't sugar coat the truth as the A.K.B.'s like to do. When I see the club I've followed for almost 23 years since that amazing night of 26th May 1989, is going down the gurgler, it hurts me. And I'll continue to speak up until the obvious solution is implemented. But how much more damage must we suffer until that occurs ?

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The funny thing is that the season that we r most probably going to have the top scorer in the league come may(RVP) in as many as 8 years is the season that we dnt achieve anythng nt even our 4th spot trophy!...Should i not be worried...