You really havnt been paying attention.Stoke and Hull and Birmingham away i guarentee we wont win any off those three.

And how do you guarantee that?

KEEP THE FAITH!!!!!!!

arsenal are a hard team to support, we did controle the game we had the chances and missed and they had 2 chances and won 2 nill its fucking devestating. i think that untill we get a goally that gives the back four conffidence and actually makes a save we wont get ahead, and if we dont get a real solid world class striker will continnue to miss out on the bib games. and lastlly i think wenger got the first team wrong , bentner and eboue or rositsky should have started. but lets keep fightting till the end and see were it gets us

I certainly am not about to lose faith in the team. Yes it was very frustrating to concede the goals that we did, especially after last week but the performance was far higher than it was last Sunday.

If we can keep playing like that from now on then we can string some victories together. The players we have had coming back are starting to get games under their belt and will only get better with games.

Bendtner
Clichy
Walcott
Diaby

Will all improve and are vital to this stage, Obviously it is in the hands of the two above us but we have a chance if we keep winning games against the so-called lesser sides.

I have one question if some one can enlighten me i would appriciate it

If we had money to spend why did AW try to sign TS from Stoke and not try to buy a world class GK?

Thank-you

I ain't gonna get my hopes up and say we are going to fight for the title until we beat liverpool on wednesday. We dominated chelsea again and still lost. We dominated Man u last week and lost. Our defense right now can't hold and we are giving doom sayers the room to say ''i told you so''

For along time now, i've been sticking my neck out for almunia but now he has to go. Lack of comunication btw him and the back 4, the back 4 are less confident with him in the post.

put vermalaen up front and leave song at the back, then we might score some goals. put eboue in the mix, he can run with the ball much better than walcott. let mannone be No 1, he made some mistakes but he also won us some games. let traore be the man on the left, he may not defend all that well, but neither does clichy, they both make mistakes but only armand can send long balls into the box.
almunia is dead to me.

Almunia hasn't been playing well and it is possible that Wenger could look for a replacement in the summer but to blame him for the goals is unfair.

If anyone is to blame for both goals then it has to be Alex Song. He wasn't goal side of Drogba for the first and left him go and the second he was out of position, caught too far up field which allowed Lampard to run into his area unchallenged, if Song was that far then Cesc and Diaby should have covered him but it didn't happen and we were open.

As for Sorensen or however its spelt, only a tabloid has come out with that so I wouldn't read too much into it unless Wenger confirms it.

ML,

I agree with you in saying our returning players are playin' games and gainin' match fitness but doesn't it concern you what two defeats in a row can do to these players confidence?

Don't get me wrong, these two results are terrible and I am sure the players will be hurting but I think it would have been far far worse if we played like we did last Sunday.

I think this team gains confidence from the way they play instead of results. If Wenger can get them to play the same way on Wednesday then I think we can win.

I am slightly worried about these tactics deployed by Chelsea and Man U because it has completely stopped us. One goal from two games is not us.

ML,

The tactics chelsea and man u used stopped us because they defended deep and caught us on the break and that is what we have failed to learn. Our 4 defeats against man u and chelsea we have dominated and still we have been found wanting.

Big games sometimes are not meant to be entertaining rather trying to cancel each other out. I would have prefered us to play a dull nil nil draw or nicking a goal in a very dull match rather than losing dominating a match against our rivals for the title.

Incompetence breeds excuses as much as familiarity breeds contempt.I Would like to be optimistic till the end of the season on the strength of the remaining fixtures we have but I doubt it very much we can amass the points to overtake Chelski or Manure.

Theo,Bendtner,Denilson,Nasri and Almunia are championship material at best mid-table in the PL .Wenger remains the biggest obstacle to winning silverware with his flawed youth policy.No manager should be bigger than the club especially us fans,who finance it after all

I agree with you, I was saying that on an earlier preview, perhaps last week.

I would have rather Song stayed, our full backs stayed and we hoped for Cesc, Arshavin or Walcott to provide something.

It doesn't look like we will see that from our players, we just attack and suffer the consequences.

i think theo needs some time still, so does bendtner. almunia i agree is not good enough. the problem with some of these players is the position they play in. nasri isn't a winger, neither are rosicky, walcott or bendtner, but they are played in such positions. ljunberg and pires were, but we don't have such type of players currently. nasri and rosicky are central creative midfielders a la fabregas just not as good. you can't fit a round peg in a square whole. they are also small and weak, and it isn't their fault, obviously, they just are that way. it is not their job to be strong, or tall. they must create opportunities for someone to score, but who is that someone?
we need a GK, real wingers and someone like huntelaar, that's what i think. these small, weak, intelligent creative players would be good if there weren't so many.

#13

What utter rubbish.

You are talking about a manager who has won the double twice and the league three times overall in this country. How can he be an obstacle?

Theo, Denilson, Nasri, Bendtner. Are you saying that they are championship players now or will only ever be championship players?

Do you believe that players who are 20-22 will improve or that they remain the same regardless of games, experience etc.

Nasri plays for France, Bendtner for Denmark. Walcott was a full international before his collection of injuries

So Wenger and their national managers must all be wrong about their abilities correct?

Wenger is not bigger than the club, he never has said that he is bigger than the club. A section of supports keep suggesting that he is. Where did that come from?

All great teams have one thing in common. Be it basketball, American football, soccer, hockey, ice hockey or any other team sport. DEFENCE wins championship because DEFENCE never switch off for the full game. Until Arsene realise this is what Arsenal lacks, it is going to be hard for Arsenal to start win anything besides being second or third best.

I agree about the defensive issues, we need to sort that out. Man for man our back four are quality internationals. Gael is not at his best because he is just back from injury but when he is on his game, he is one of the best.

As a unit they haven't developed together as Wenger would have hoped, at least consistently.

Wenger did build the back four that went unbeaten and we didn't concede many goals in that year so he has done it before. Clearly something needs sorting out at the back now though.

We are leaking far too many simple goals.All our goals against Chelsea and Man U should have been prevented.

ML, I'm about 99% sure the Sorensen rumour is true which is just very confusing in every respect.

Anyway, I thought we played well for the most part and seeing as I realistically thought we'd most likely lose anyway I'm finding it hard to really get too upset about it.

Forget the tactics. The glaring difference between the two sides was Didier Drogba once more. Chelsea only shut up shop and became reliant on the counter because they scored the first goal so early (Incidently ML, I'm suprised you fingered Song for that one seeing as at least three players were to blame. Diaby for allowing Terry to get the first header, Clichy for leaving his position on the far post and as you say, Song for allowing Drogba to get free). Had that not gone in, the game would have been far more open.

That's not to say the end result would have been different mind. The fundamental problem was the lack of recognised striker. You cant go into these big games playing so attack minded without a striker and expect to win.

Chelsea's striker was their match winner unsurprisingly and as long as we were playing without one, that was a problem. We cant expect to beat the big two without a striker. It's almost suicidal. If we're not going to defend properly (which predictably we didn't) we have to make damn sure we outscore the oppo. That will never happen without a striker.

Incidently, I dont know if anyone else heard this on Sky but Drogba has scored ONE league goal against Liverpool, and none against Man Utd yet 11 in 11 against us. For me, this shows that it is certainly possible to defend against him, we just choose not to for whatever reason....

we forget we were 11points off chelsea yet we cought up with them.its very sad when we were the better team but should we stay focused who knows what can happen.let us be arsenal supporters not haters,its now they need us most.i for 1 believe had we not conceded by 10 minute we would have won.KEEP THE FAITH GUNNERS

Absolutely agree ''that defence is the key'' and we have that in Sagna, Gallas, Vermalean and Clichy but they will continue to have problems with Almunia as GK.

Can you imagine what we would have achieved with Shay Given as GK this season?

Right now i have come to the conclusion that Arsenal are not financially strong and that Wenger is helping the board in saying there is money to spend and he would buy if the price is right.

can anyone honestly say that there is a worse keeper than almunia in all the premiership? just one? i can't. i agree with omomo on the shay given thing, joe hart, so many...

Iron Man you make some valid points. Not sure where Clichy was going on the first goal but Diaby losing a header to Terry isn't really a mistake though. It is far worse not to get goal side of your man and then not track the man is asking for trouble.

The lack of a striker did look obvious today but I have to say that I haven't really thought that we have missed one until today.

Against Manchester United we created some clear cut chances that Arshavin should have done better with, but overall the movement of the players has meant that we have always had bodies in goalscoring areas.

Today Drogba stood out like a sore thumb. Bendtner is no Van Persie just yet but fully fit I think he would have caused them problems.

I'm off to finish this review *sigh*

Nite all

Well, if Diaby isn't going to bother challenging Terry's header, what is he even doing there? Any football coach at any level will tell you that you should always win the first ball. But like you say, Song should have done better.

All these counter attack goals are becoming a bit of a joke though. Basic lessons are just not being learned.

I kind of hear what you're saying about Bendtner. While I don't believe he is going to be this striking messiah that everyone seems to think he will be, I would have like dto see how he would have done fully fit from the start today.

Having just watched the goal back, I think it was more Vermaelen's fault as apposed to Diaby's.

Diaby is marking Ivanovic while Vermalen is looking after Terry. Terry slipped Vermaelen so Diaby left his man to pick up Terry, by that point it was too late and he couldn't challenge because the ball was too far ahead of him.

Watch it again.

I never thought I'd say this, having been a Wenger supporter and fan for many years. But my faith has been severely dented and as the disasters pile up, one on top of another, I'm finding it harder and harder to back him. Week after week the same lame excuses come out and the same lame team is taken to the slaugher house. A loyal and committed gooner for over 40 years, its getting very hard for me to get up at 2am (in Australia) and watch this crap.....I've never said it before, but perhaps it is time AW left. Sure he's taken the club to extreme heights and he must be respected for that but there comes a time when an overdone strength becomes a weakness. Perhaps we do need a change at the top....everyone knows how to play us now and the forthcoming fixture list is nowhere as easy as is suggested, especially when we are no more than an also ran second tier EPL club nowadays. I hope I am proved wrong but deep down most people know that this is not a team that has ambition, strength and the players to win anything. Sadly, mediocrity is our middle name.

You may be right that he was Vermaelan's man but Diaby ran to attack the ball and didn't even make an attempt to jump for it. Even if he wasn't supposed to be picking up Terry, he should have made that ball his. There's no excuse for not even trying. In any case, whichever way we look at it, there was more than one culprit and a very poor goal to concede.

Bleugh! It gets worse everytime! We had ALL 11 players back defending that and they had 5 men forward yet still won both the first and second ball. By the time Drogba finishes at the back post, we have FOUR men marking the front post. Simply appalling.

I miss Steve Bould...

Disappointing, but not exactly unexpected either.

Again, tactically not good enough. And defensively not good enough.

Our squad is a 'largely' talented bunch of players, but they are lacking 3-4 quality players with proven experience/ability.

I would suggest at least 3, being a GK, a CM and a quality striker. I'm not about to start saying that X, Y & Z are not good enough. But it's apparent that perhaps certain players are not good enough to play as regularly as they do. Wenger obviously believes that all of these younger players he has have matured enough to play at the top level right here and now, week in week out. However, I think he's slightly blinded by the likes of Fabregas, who is a special talent.

Not all players mature at the same age. Some won't until mid 20's. Denilson might be a really good player, but maybe he's taking longer to mature. Perhaps putting all these youngsters in the spotlight so early (compared to a lot of clubs), is actually hindering them? Usually you won't see players of the ages we have until they are older. You may see the odd appearance here and there, but we see young players playing week in week out and we're seeing all of the mistakes along the way as they mature and gain experience.

Wenger is a great manager, there is no denying that. He has a record to prove that. However, he's not faultless and deserves criticism for this squad that he's compiled.

Is it a coincidence that we were winning league titles when we had a powerful defence, that he inherited. He had a world class GK and the famous rear guard. He unearthed Cole, yes for the 'unbeatables', added lauren. But they were marshalled by Keown and Campbell, plus Lehmann who was also a world class keeper, the only one Wenger has managed to sign in his 13/14 years.

Wenger has certainly evolved his strategy. We use to have big, athletic, fast powerful sides when winning trophies. Adams, Keown, Bould, Campbell, Vieira, Petit, Edu, Gilberto, Parlour, Wiltord, Kanu, Henry, Bergkamp, Pires to name a few. Now we're loaded with 5 & a half footers. Our squad is closer to Barcelona in looks now, than before when we had a winning formula. Can a Barcelona'esque squad win the Premier League?

I believe Wenger has a vision to win the PL, playing the Barcelona way. And I'm not sure it's a tactic or style that can win the top flight English league.

I think the league is out of reach now, despite our 'easier' run in. While we're all clinging to the fact we should be beating these 'lesser' teams. What worries me is the way we concede goals. There's little evidence to suggest we won't concede several more sloppy goals, in which case we're going to be relying on scoring more than the opposition.

Which leads me to ask - do we do ANY defensive training? What are our tactics exactly? Because we sure as hell get found out against United and Chelsea. We just get picked off far too easily.

The vast majority of our goals conceded are due to sh!t defending. I don't think the first choice back 4 are necessarily bad players, far from it really. They are all good players. But they are not cohesive enough. Basics are just so glaringly obvious, we don't track opposing players well enough, we don't mark well enough and we're always losing our man or you see numerous oppo players unmarked. Positioning is poor.

Chelsea's first goal - we have 2 men on the posts for corners. WHY WHY WHY did clichy move off his post? YOU DO NOT MOVE FROM YOUR POST UNTIL THE DANGER HAS BEEN CLEARED. Clichy was moving before the corner was taken? WHY? It's so basic it's ludicrous that we can't manage it. If he'd have stayed there instead of joining Nasri on the other post he would probably have prevented Drogba from scoring.

That is exactly the type of example that makes me wonder what they do in training? Why they can't grasp the basics. It's infuriating.

It's also the reason why, our remaining games are not given 3 pointers.......

Anybody that thinks Wally Walcott will come good is crazy he is Jeffers Mark2

Whatever "the whys and wherefors"-once again we lost!If anyone looks beyond their "rose tinted" glasses at the sequence of games played by Arsenal this year then they will see a lack of continuity and a lack of consitstent form.

West Ham-(FA Cup)Looked like we would lose to a mediocre West Ham until the manager thought better of his starting line-up and for once managed to change the game with his substitutions.
Everton-Lucky to get a last minute equaliser in a game where we were second best.
Boton-(away)An easy away win against a poor side.
Bolton-(home)Managed to go two goals down and then came back to score four although the warning signs were there for games to come,
Stoke (away FA Cup)Put out a weakened team with the forthcoming League fixtures in mind and were consequently out-mustled and fairly easily beaten.
Aston Villa (away)Toothless in front of goal aginst a team that we had easily beaten at home.
Man Utd (home)Outclassed,outmanoeuvred and beaten three goals to one-it could have been more!
Chelsea (away) A better performance but Chelsea did what they had to do once they got two goals to the good.For all our" huffing and puffing" we never looked like we would get back on terms!
Coming up-A game against an improving Liverpool team.Although they are only getting results off the back of an improvement in "attitude" rather than any real consensus of playing ability .That said,if they DO win then they would have caught us up ,and will leave both the Team and the Manager in a very precarious position!

Walcott - has had his chance, failed....Eboue is better!

Almunia - costing us too many goals...OUT

Bendtner - should have started against chelsea - these long high balls we play into the box are not going to be won by the likes of eduardo or arshavin - should start against Liverpool

Clichy - WTF has happened to this guy, used to be reliable defencively, albit, alike Sagna - too many wasted crosses

Starting 11 against Liverpool:
Manone (GK)
Eboue (RB)
Gallas (CB)
Verminator (CB)
Clichy (LB) (Last chance saloon)
Song (DM)
Rosicky (RM)
Fabregas (CM)
Diaby (LM)
Bomber 52 (S) (Main striker - holding player)
Arshavin (S) (Roaming role)

I will be disappointed to see any other line up.

we do have a team similar to barcelona, except up front they have ibrahimovic, henry and messi, and in the middle xavi and iniesta. we have fabregas, rosicky, nasri, denilson, walcott, eduardo. only one of our players is world class, while every one in barcelona is, that is why the system works for them. i do believe some of these young players have been thrown to the deep end too soon, and they get paid as if they were world beaters. it is wenger's project but it certainly has some cracks in it, i hope the professor isn't too stubborn to admit it and correct those mistakes.

ML, the two results and the trophyless season were (and in the second case IS) easy to predict so I take no satisfaction from having done so before we played Man U and Chelsea. The problem here is that there seems to be an absolute refusal on behalf of AW to accept that he has taken us up a blind alley (and on the part of yourself and some other fans). His experiment has failed if you judge it in terms of results. If - as AW would like us to- you judge it on ability to play neat interpassing moves alone then it has succeeded. And that is the nub of the problem, anything can be a success if defined in its own terms.

As fans we cannot choose to support another club, but we can voice disapproval when we see something is wrong. You choose blind faith, but it hurts me what I see and have seen over recent years. It is not about one set of results or how many seasons without silverware. It is about whether you believe that the club is progressing. I see regress. We cannot defend, the lack of a British/Irish core in the club and the failure to have any tactical flexibility or abilty to change the pattern of a game hasn't happened this season or last. It has happened since Wenger lost the core group of players he inherited and mixed them brilliantly with high quality astute signings such as Vieira, Overmars and Petit. We are a one dimensional side that reeks of a ghetto. He signs lots of player who are mentally and physically unsuitable for the Premier League, who don't speak English and don't like the climate. In following his dream he forgets where we play and the demands that places on players. As other contributiors have pointed out, if we are happy with 3rd/4th and a lack of home players then it is right to give AW full backing because that is what he will deliver. That isn't terrible and many clubs would say 'yes please' straight away, but i want a bit more from Arsenal and believe that as a club we have built a tradition over a hundred plus years of being genuine challengers for the big trophies and having an indomitable spirit running through the club. I like both of those things very very much so that is why I cannot accept the currebnt situation blithely. I've said it before it is all a bit sad and won't change wile AW is at the helm.

CHGooner,

Let me know if you are still reading this thread and I shall repond.

Thanks

For all of you being way to negative, my point in the article is that there are reasons for optimism, not that I think we're perfect, there's no-one to blame yesterday in particular, we showed signs of charcter, quality and strength to bounce back, most of the time when you lose a game like last week against man utd you don't have chelsea the next week so we probably would have won had it been against anyone else, i could understand the pessimistic views to an extent if we're talking about man utd last week, but not about yesterday.

ML, sorry only just read this. I am reading but will be reading the more recent threads as well.

For any hope of the championship this year we think Arsenal will have to beat Liverpool tonight but there is always next year and they do seem to be building up a strong squad